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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2003, 09:57 PM
Kolja Sulimma
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Default Spartan3 prices again...

Sorry that I warm up this discussion again, but there was a thread a
while ago on FPGA pricing. Someone complained that he could not get
near the prices listet in the Xilinx press release.
It was concluded that the time factor ("end of 2004") was overlooked
and caused the confusion.

I just stumbled about this press release:
http://xilinx.com/prs_rls/silicon_spart/03141s3_nd.htm

It says:
"Xilinx is new offering Spartan-3 FPGAs with 1 million system gates
for under $12.00*,[...]"
and again a few paragraphs later
"The XC3S50, XC3S200, and XC3S400 Spartan-3 devices with 50,000,
200,000, and 400,000 system gates respectively are available for less
than $6.50*."

well, the footnote axplains that these prices are valid at the end of
2004, but the text says these devices "ARE AVAlLABLE FOR $6.50" and
Xilinx "IS OFFERING NOW FOR UNDER $12"
Does anyone besides me have the feeling that this is not the right
grammar to discribe a situation that is set one year in the future?
Maybe the confusion was intended by the author?

Kolja Sulimma
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2003, 01:35 AM
Bob Perlman
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Default Re: Spartan3 prices again...

Hi -

On 28 Dec 2003 13:57:27 -0800, [email protected] (Kolja Sulimma) wrote:

>Sorry that I warm up this discussion again, but there was a thread a
>while ago on FPGA pricing. Someone complained that he could not get
>near the prices listet in the Xilinx press release.
>It was concluded that the time factor ("end of 2004") was overlooked
>and caused the confusion.


(other stuff snipped)

At best, a press release will give you a (very) rough idea of what
you'll actually end up paying for a part. Relying on this kind of
information is one step above reading the entrails of chickens. And
on occasion, I've had *better* results with the chickens.

If you think there's even a chance that you're going to be designing
in a certain component, get a formal price quote from the salesman,
rep, or distributor. And if you can't get a quote, maybe you can't
get the part, either.

Bob Perlman
Cambrian Design Works


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2003, 05:53 PM
Kolja Sulimma
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Default Re: Spartan3 prices again...

> If you think there's even a chance that you're going to be designing
> in a certain component, get a formal price quote from the salesman,
> rep, or distributor. And if you can't get a quote, maybe you can't
> get the part, either.
> > Bob Perlman

> Cambrian Design Works


The issue was, that the formal quotes for pieces in 5k quantities
where a factor of 20 above the prices quoted by Xilinx for 250k
quantities.
And nobody in this group really believed that you get a 95% volume
discount.

It's not as bad in my case. I only have to pay a factor of 7 more for
1k quantities.

Kolja Sulimma
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2003, 10:22 PM
Bob Perlman
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Default Re: Spartan3 prices again...

On 30 Dec 2003 09:53:47 -0800, [email protected] (Kolja Sulimma) wrote:

>> If you think there's even a chance that you're going to be designing
>> in a certain component, get a formal price quote from the salesman,
>> rep, or distributor. And if you can't get a quote, maybe you can't
>> get the part, either.
>> > Bob Perlman

>> Cambrian Design Works

>
>The issue was, that the formal quotes for pieces in 5k quantities
>where a factor of 20 above the prices quoted by Xilinx for 250k
>quantities.
>And nobody in this group really believed that you get a 95% volume
>discount.


If a formal quote for 5k pieces comes in at 20X a formal quote for
250k pieces, that's interesting information. But if a formal quote
for 5k pieces is 20X the 250k price stated in a press release, that's
hardly surprising.

Which is it?

Any price you see in a press release should have a "j" after it.

Bob Perlman
Cambrian Design Works

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2004, 07:26 PM
Ralph Malph
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Default Re: Spartan3 prices again...

Bob Perlman wrote:
>
> On 30 Dec 2003 09:53:47 -0800, [email protected] (Kolja Sulimma) wrote:
>
> >> If you think there's even a chance that you're going to be designing
> >> in a certain component, get a formal price quote from the salesman,
> >> rep, or distributor. And if you can't get a quote, maybe you can't
> >> get the part, either.
> >> > Bob Perlman
> >> Cambrian Design Works

> >
> >The issue was, that the formal quotes for pieces in 5k quantities
> >where a factor of 20 above the prices quoted by Xilinx for 250k
> >quantities.
> >And nobody in this group really believed that you get a 95% volume
> >discount.

>
> If a formal quote for 5k pieces comes in at 20X a formal quote for
> 250k pieces, that's interesting information. But if a formal quote
> for 5k pieces is 20X the 250k price stated in a press release, that's
> hardly surprising.
>
> Which is it?
>
> Any price you see in a press release should have a "j" after it.


"J" for joke?

A friend told me that the 50,000 piece price on the slowest XC3S400 in
the FG456 package would be around $20. The press releases are talking
about the "smallest" package and 250,000 quantities giving a price
around $5. I don't know what the "smallest" package is, but I would
like to meet the guy who is getting the $5 price. Seems to me the whole
point of the Spartan 3 chips is low price. They are not faster, or
lower power or anything else other than cheap. If they don't come in
below the competition, what good are they? Heck, with three power
supplies and very touchy IO voltage specs, they seem to me like a PITA
to design in!
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2004, 01:57 AM
Bob Perlman
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Default Re: Spartan3 prices again...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:26:48 -0500, Ralph Malph <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Bob Perlman wrote:
>>
>> On 30 Dec 2003 09:53:47 -0800, [email protected] (Kolja Sulimma) wrote:
>>
>> >> If you think there's even a chance that you're going to be designing
>> >> in a certain component, get a formal price quote from the salesman,
>> >> rep, or distributor. And if you can't get a quote, maybe you can't
>> >> get the part, either.
>> >> > Bob Perlman
>> >> Cambrian Design Works
>> >
>> >The issue was, that the formal quotes for pieces in 5k quantities
>> >where a factor of 20 above the prices quoted by Xilinx for 250k
>> >quantities.
>> >And nobody in this group really believed that you get a 95% volume
>> >discount.

>>
>> If a formal quote for 5k pieces comes in at 20X a formal quote for
>> 250k pieces, that's interesting information. But if a formal quote
>> for 5k pieces is 20X the 250k price stated in a press release, that's
>> hardly surprising.
>>
>> Which is it?
>>
>> Any price you see in a press release should have a "j" after it.

>
>"J" for joke?


"J" as in "imaginary number." EEs employ "j" instead of "i" because
we use the latter for current.

Bob Perlman
Cambrian Design Works

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2004, 01:13 PM
Kolja Sulimma
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Default Re: Spartan3 prices again...

>
> A friend told me that the 50,000 piece price on the slowest XC3S400 in
> the FG456 package would be around $20. The press releases are talking
> about the "smallest" package and 250,000 quantities giving a price
> around $5. I don't know what the "smallest" package is, but I would
> like to meet the guy who is getting the $5 price.


And from my last insight quote for the xc3s200 the smallest package is
three Euro more expensive than the FT256
(VQ100 is smaller both in dimension and in pincount than FT256)

Kolja Sulimma
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2004, 10:35 PM
Ralph Malph
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Default Re: Spartan3 prices again...

Kolja Sulimma wrote:
>
> >
> > A friend told me that the 50,000 piece price on the slowest XC3S400 in
> > the FG456 package would be around $20. The press releases are talking
> > about the "smallest" package and 250,000 quantities giving a price
> > around $5. I don't know what the "smallest" package is, but I would
> > like to meet the guy who is getting the $5 price.

>
> And from my last insight quote for the xc3s200 the smallest package is
> three Euro more expensive than the FT256
> (VQ100 is smaller both in dimension and in pincount than FT256)



Maybe the mean "smallest" in price?
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