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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2003, 07:57 PM
David Lamb
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Posts: n/a
Default Selecting between two clock signals

Hi all,
I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode of
operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I will
never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the clock_in
input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
Thanks
David


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2003, 08:46 PM
Marten
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals


"David Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi all,
> I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode of
> operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I will
> never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the clock_in
> input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
> Thanks
> David
>
>


David,

Do a query for 'clock sources' in the category 'XCELL Journals' on the
Xilinx web site. This will provide you with a link called 'XCELL 24 -
Trouble-Free Switching Between Clocks (Q1 97)', which, in turn will lead you
to xl24_20.pdf, a neat little circuit that hopefully will ease your worries


Keep in mind that whatever you put in the clock path will affect the setup
and hold time requirements for the particular component.

Take care,


Marten

] remove the obvious to repy by e-mail [


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2003, 09:53 PM
Andrew Paule
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

this is dependant on what chip he is using - is this only a xilinx
newsgroup?

Marten wrote:

>"David Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>
>
>>Hi all,
>>I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode of
>>operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I will
>>never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the clock_in
>>input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
>>Thanks
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>>

>
>David,
>
>Do a query for 'clock sources' in the category 'XCELL Journals' on the
>Xilinx web site. This will provide you with a link called 'XCELL 24 -
>Trouble-Free Switching Between Clocks (Q1 97)', which, in turn will lead you
>to xl24_20.pdf, a neat little circuit that hopefully will ease your worries
>
>
>Keep in mind that whatever you put in the clock path will affect the setup
>and hold time requirements for the particular component.
>
>Take care,
>
>
>Marten
>
>] remove the obvious to repy by e-mail [
>
>
>
>


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2003, 10:29 PM
John_H
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

Fortunately there are things that come out of Xilinx that are applicable to
all digital logic.
That XCELL article is one of them if you chose to look.


"Andrew Paule" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> this is dependant on what chip he is using - is this only a xilinx
> newsgroup?
>
> Marten wrote:
>
> >"David Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >
> >
> >>Hi all,
> >>I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode

of
> >>operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I will
> >>never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the

clock_in
> >>input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
> >>Thanks
> >>David
> >>
> >>

> >
> >David,
> >
> >Do a query for 'clock sources' in the category 'XCELL Journals' on the
> >Xilinx web site. This will provide you with a link called 'XCELL 24 -
> >Trouble-Free Switching Between Clocks (Q1 97)', which, in turn will lead

you
> >to xl24_20.pdf, a neat little circuit that hopefully will ease your

worries
> >
> >
> >Keep in mind that whatever you put in the clock path will affect the

setup
> >and hold time requirements for the particular component.
> >
> >Take care,
> >
> >
> >Marten



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2003, 11:59 PM
Peter Alfke
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

Click at
http://www.xilinx.com/xcell/xl24/xl24_20.pdf

This circuit allows totally asynchronous selection between two clock sources.
But remember: both clock must be wiggling (however slowly). You cannot
use this circuit to enable/disable a clock, which is actually a far
simpler problem.
The BUFGMUX in Virtex is not quite this clever, it has a set-up time
requirement on the S control input. :-(
Glad that someone found this old tidbit useful...
Peter Alfke
=============================
Marten wrote:
>
> "David Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Hi all,
> > I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode of
> > operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I will
> > never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the clock_in
> > input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
> > Thanks
> > David
> >
> >

>
> David,
>
> Do a query for 'clock sources' in the category 'XCELL Journals' on the
> Xilinx web site. This will provide you with a link called 'XCELL 24 -
> Trouble-Free Switching Between Clocks (Q1 97)', which, in turn will lead you
> to xl24_20.pdf, a neat little circuit that hopefully will ease your worries
>
>
> Keep in mind that whatever you put in the clock path will affect the setup
> and hold time requirements for the particular component.
>
> Take care,
>
> Marten
>
> ] remove the obvious to repy by e-mail [

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2003, 09:40 AM
Uwe Bonnes
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

Peter Alfke <[email protected]> wrote:
: Click at
: http://www.xilinx.com/xcell/xl24/xl24_20.pdf

: This circuit allows totally asynchronous selection between two clock sources.
: But remember: both clock must be wiggling (however slowly). You cannot
: use this circuit to enable/disable a clock, which is actually a far
: simpler problem.
: The BUFGMUX in Virtex is not quite this clever, it has a set-up time
: requirement on the S control input. :-(

Peter,

what happens if this setup time is violated? Will the BUFGMUX stall (no more
output clock until some reset), will it produce a runt ( some clock pulse
smaller than any of both input clocks) or will it switch clocks only
delayed? I didn't find anything in the datasheet.

Nye
--
Uwe Bonnes [email protected]

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2003, 10:33 PM
Peter Alfke
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals



Uwe Bonnes wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> what happens if this setup time is violated? Will the BUFGMUX stall (no more
> output clock until some reset), will it produce a runt ( some clock pulse
> smaller than any of both input clocks) or will it switch clocks only
> delayed? I didn't find anything in the datasheet.


I don't know off-hand,. Will look into this when I am back from the
European FPL2003 conference, i.e. Sept 8.
Peter Alfke
>
> Nye
> --
> Uwe Bonnes [email protected]
>
> Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
> --------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2003, 05:50 PM
Austin Lesea
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

Uwe,

If the setup is violated, there may be a runt pulse. It will not stall, as soon as
the next set of control signals comes along, it will operate normally again.

Austin

Uwe Bonnes wrote:

> Peter Alfke <[email protected]> wrote:
> : Click at
> : http://www.xilinx.com/xcell/xl24/xl24_20.pdf
>
> : This circuit allows totally asynchronous selection between two clock sources.
> : But remember: both clock must be wiggling (however slowly). You cannot
> : use this circuit to enable/disable a clock, which is actually a far
> : simpler problem.
> : The BUFGMUX in Virtex is not quite this clever, it has a set-up time
> : requirement on the S control input. :-(
>
> Peter,
>
> what happens if this setup time is violated? Will the BUFGMUX stall (no more
> output clock until some reset), will it produce a runt ( some clock pulse
> smaller than any of both input clocks) or will it switch clocks only
> delayed? I didn't find anything in the datasheet.
>
> Nye
> --
> Uwe Bonnes [email protected]
>
> Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
> --------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2003, 05:52 PM
Austin Lesea
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

Jay,

Better in a relative sense: it does not have a setup time requirement (Peter's
circuit).

But, Peter's circuit does not match all delays, and keep the skew to 0 as part
of the DCM feedback loop, either.

Austin

Jay wrote:

> Peter,
>
> So you mean this circuit is better than the BUFGMUX?
>
> "Peter Alfke" <[email protected]> ??????:[email protected]
> > Click at
> > http://www.xilinx.com/xcell/xl24/xl24_20.pdf
> >
> > This circuit allows totally asynchronous selection between two clock

> sources.
> > But remember: both clock must be wiggling (however slowly). You cannot
> > use this circuit to enable/disable a clock, which is actually a far
> > simpler problem.
> > The BUFGMUX in Virtex is not quite this clever, it has a set-up time
> > requirement on the S control input. :-(
> > Glad that someone found this old tidbit useful...
> > Peter Alfke
> > =============================
> > Marten wrote:
> > >
> > > "David Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode

> of
> > > > operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I

> will
> > > > never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the

> clock_in
> > > > input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
> > > > Thanks
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > Do a query for 'clock sources' in the category 'XCELL Journals' on the
> > > Xilinx web site. This will provide you with a link called 'XCELL 24 -
> > > Trouble-Free Switching Between Clocks (Q1 97)', which, in turn will lead

> you
> > > to xl24_20.pdf, a neat little circuit that hopefully will ease your

> worries
> > >
> > >
> > > Keep in mind that whatever you put in the clock path will affect the

> setup
> > > and hold time requirements for the particular component.
> > >
> > > Take care,
> > >
> > > Marten
> > >
> > > ] remove the obvious to repy by e-mail [


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2003, 06:01 PM
David Lamb
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

Hi,
I used your circuit to switch between the two clocks. However, when I
synthetise in Xilinx ISE 5.2, I get the following warning:

(*) These 2 clock signal(s) are generated by combinatorial logic,
and XST is not able to identify which are the primary clock signals.
Please use the CLOCK_SIGNAL constraint to specify the clock signal(s)
generated by combinatorial logic.

I don't really understand what it means. I guess I need to tell ISE that the
output of the circuit is a clock, but I don't know how...

Thanks a lot
David

"Peter Alfke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Click at
> http://www.xilinx.com/xcell/xl24/xl24_20.pdf
>
> This circuit allows totally asynchronous selection between two clock

sources.
> But remember: both clock must be wiggling (however slowly). You cannot
> use this circuit to enable/disable a clock, which is actually a far
> simpler problem.
> The BUFGMUX in Virtex is not quite this clever, it has a set-up time
> requirement on the S control input. :-(
> Glad that someone found this old tidbit useful...
> Peter Alfke
> =============================
> Marten wrote:
> >
> > "David Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > Hi all,
> > > I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode

of
> > > operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I

will
> > > never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the

clock_in
> > > input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
> > > Thanks
> > > David
> > >
> > >

> >
> > David,
> >
> > Do a query for 'clock sources' in the category 'XCELL Journals' on the
> > Xilinx web site. This will provide you with a link called 'XCELL 24 -
> > Trouble-Free Switching Between Clocks (Q1 97)', which, in turn will lead

you
> > to xl24_20.pdf, a neat little circuit that hopefully will ease your

worries
> >
> >
> > Keep in mind that whatever you put in the clock path will affect the

setup
> > and hold time requirements for the particular component.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Marten
> >
> > ] remove the obvious to repy by e-mail [



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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2003, 06:51 PM
Austin Lesea
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Selecting between two clock signals

David,

It simply means the tool is not smart enough to figure out what you are doing,
and since you have jumped off of a global clock resource, and passed through
logic on regular interconnect, skew and delay are no longer being kept track of
(it doesn't know where the clock comes from/goes to).

So, yes I think you have to tell it what is what, but since I am not a
software/synthesis guru, I can not tell you how to do that. Perhaps someone
else can,

Austin


David Lamb wrote:

> Hi,
> I used your circuit to switch between the two clocks. However, when I
> synthetise in Xilinx ISE 5.2, I get the following warning:
>
> (*) These 2 clock signal(s) are generated by combinatorial logic,
> and XST is not able to identify which are the primary clock signals.
> Please use the CLOCK_SIGNAL constraint to specify the clock signal(s)
> generated by combinatorial logic.
>
> I don't really understand what it means. I guess I need to tell ISE that the
> output of the circuit is a clock, but I don't know how...
>
> Thanks a lot
> David
>
> "Peter Alfke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Click at
> > http://www.xilinx.com/xcell/xl24/xl24_20.pdf
> >
> > This circuit allows totally asynchronous selection between two clock

> sources.
> > But remember: both clock must be wiggling (however slowly). You cannot
> > use this circuit to enable/disable a clock, which is actually a far
> > simpler problem.
> > The BUFGMUX in Virtex is not quite this clever, it has a set-up time
> > requirement on the S control input. :-(
> > Glad that someone found this old tidbit useful...
> > Peter Alfke
> > =============================
> > Marten wrote:
> > >
> > > "David Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > I have a vhdl component with a "clock_in" input. Depending on the mode

> of
> > > > operation, I want to switch between two different clock signals. I

> will
> > > > never switch on the fly though. Can I use a mux in front of the

> clock_in
> > > > input? I'm afraid it might glitch.
> > > > Thanks
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > Do a query for 'clock sources' in the category 'XCELL Journals' on the
> > > Xilinx web site. This will provide you with a link called 'XCELL 24 -
> > > Trouble-Free Switching Between Clocks (Q1 97)', which, in turn will lead

> you
> > > to xl24_20.pdf, a neat little circuit that hopefully will ease your

> worries
> > >
> > >
> > > Keep in mind that whatever you put in the clock path will affect the

> setup
> > > and hold time requirements for the particular component.
> > >
> > > Take care,
> > >
> > > Marten
> > >
> > > ] remove the obvious to repy by e-mail [


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