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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2007, 10:11 PM
Wojciech Zabolotny
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Default Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

Hi All,

I'm looking for a possibility to run Linux (may be a ucLinux) on a
XC3S500E containing CPU and some custom peripherials.
The hardware platform should be a Spartan3E Starter Kit (rev. D),
or something like this.

I have found the almost ready to use solution here:
http://muranaka.info/pukiwiki/index....0Starter%20Kit
but it is MicroBlaze based, which is not acceptable for me due to
licensing terms (which are even worse for the Ethernet MAC controller).
Has anybody tried to use the aeMB clone with the free OpenCores Ethernet
MAC controller with the MicroBlaze ucLinux?

The OpenRisc and LEON3 seem to be too big for XC3S500E (or at least I
was not able to trim them sufficiently for this FPGA).

The most preferable solution seem to be a CPU which has a standard
instruction set (e.g. Plasma, which is MIPS I compatible), because in
this case the toolchain is well supported.

However I could not find any information if it is possible to run Linux
on the Plasma (or mips789) SOFT CPU.
Has anybody any experience in that subject?

There is an ideal solution announced on the OpenCores:
http://www.opencores.org/projects.cg..._core/overview
But it is only an idea (Development status :: alpha)
--
TIA & Regards,
Wojtek Zabolotny

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 07:45 AM
Antti
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Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

On 5 Nov., 23:11, Wojciech Zabolotny <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for a possibility to run Linux (may be a ucLinux) on a
> XC3S500E containing CPU and some custom peripherials.
> The hardware platform should be a Spartan3E Starter Kit (rev. D),
> or something like this.
>
> I have found the almost ready to use solution here:http://muranaka.info/pukiwiki/index....linux%20and%20...
> but it is MicroBlaze based, which is not acceptable for me due to
> licensing terms (which are even worse for the Ethernet MAC controller).
> Has anybody tried to use the aeMB clone with the free OpenCores Ethernet
> MAC controller with the MicroBlaze ucLinux?
>
> The OpenRisc and LEON3 seem to be too big for XC3S500E (or at least I
> was not able to trim them sufficiently for this FPGA).
>
> The most preferable solution seem to be a CPU which has a standard
> instruction set (e.g. Plasma, which is MIPS I compatible), because in
> this case the toolchain is well supported.
>
> However I could not find any information if it is possible to run Linux
> on the Plasma (or mips789) SOFT CPU.
> Has anybody any experience in that subject?
>
> There is an ideal solution announced on the OpenCores:http://www.opencores.org/projects.cg..._core/overview
> But it is only an idea (Development status :: alpha)
> --
> TIA & Regards,
> Wojtek Zabolotny


linux should run nicely on MIPS arch, but not sure about Plasma, well
also interested in the same as you
Antti



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

You can try http://www.niktech.com/ and their Manik CPU
It seems to be small enough to fit into the XCS500E with several
peripherals.
Here is startup description for Spartan-3 Starter Kit
http://www.niktech.com/GettingStarted.pdf
Vit

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:55 AM
Steven Derrien
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Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

Antti a écrit :
> On 5 Nov., 23:11, Wojciech Zabolotny <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> linux should run nicely on MIPS arch, but not sure about Plasma, well
> also interested in the same as you
> Antti
>


Hi,

I was also considering trying to port uCLinux on the Plasma CPU, but I
quickly gave up (too complicated for me ), however I found an
interesting page regarding the porting on uCLInux to MIPS arch.

http://www.xiptech.com/uclinuxformips.htm

Hope it can help.

Steven



>

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 09:40 AM
Wojciech Zabolotny
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Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?



On Tue, 6 Nov 2007, [email protected] wrote:

> You can try http://www.niktech.com/ and their Manik CPU
> It seems to be small enough to fit into the XCS500E with several
> peripherals.
> Here is startup description for Spartan-3 Starter Kit
> http://www.niktech.com/GettingStarted.pdf
> Vit
>

When I checked Manik CPU a few months ago, I couldn't find any information
regarding its licensing.
I have sent a question to niktech about it, but have never received any
answer. Without clear license allowing me to use it, I will not risk
basing my laboratory on this design, even though it seems to be very
nice...

Wojtek

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 10:17 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

On 6 Lis, 10:40, Wojciech Zabolotny <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2007, [email protected] wrote:
> > You can tryhttp://www.niktech.com/and their Manik CPU
> > It seems to be small enough to fit into the XCS500E with several
> > peripherals.
> > Here is startup description for Spartan-3 Starter Kit
> >http://www.niktech.com/GettingStarted.pdf
> > Vit

>
> When I checked Manik CPU a few months ago, I couldn't find any information
> regarding its licensing.
> I have sent a question to niktech about it, but have never received any
> answer. Without clear license allowing me to use it, I will not risk
> basing my laboratory on this design, even though it seems to be very
> nice...
>
> Wojtek


To get some response it needed some investigation to get the right
email :-)
When you search this forum for Niktech+Manik you can find Sandeep
Dutta name
The right email was [email protected]

He sent me answers to several questions
>>> Did you try to port uClinux to Manik?

No we have not yet started porting uCLinux, we do have plans to
port it.
>>> What is the licence of Manik CPU core and other IP cores?

The licensing scheme is very simple, you can use the core
in your product for free, you cannot re-sell the core itself,
you are not obligated to give out the source of any derived work.
Consider it being a GPL with expection that if you instantiate this
core in your design it does by itself make the resulting work
covered by
GPL.
>>> Will you put it to opencores.org?

Currently we ave no plans to put it into opencores.
Sandeep

Regards
Vit

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 10:47 AM
Wojciech Zabolotny
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007, [email protected] wrote:
>
> To get some response it needed some investigation to get the right
> email :-)
> When you search this forum for Niktech+Manik you can find Sandeep
> Dutta name
> The right email was [email protected]
>
> He sent me answers to several questions
> >>> Did you try to port uClinux to Manik?

> No we have not yet started porting uCLinux, we do have plans to
> port it.
> >>> What is the licence of Manik CPU core and other IP cores?

> The licensing scheme is very simple, you can use the core
> in your product for free, you cannot re-sell the core itself,
> you are not obligated to give out the source of any derived work.
> Consider it being a GPL with expection that if you instantiate this
> core in your design it does by itself make the resulting work
> covered by
> GPL.


It looks out much better, but anyway it would be nice to have the license
terms included in the sources.
Additionally the above statement seem to me to be self-contradictory.
I'm not a native english speaker, so maybe I've misunderstood something,
but it seems to me that it should be either:
version 1
a) "you are not obligated to give out the source of any derived work"
b) "Consider it being a GPL with eception that if you instantiate this
core in your design it does NOT by itself make the resulting work
covered by GPL."

or:

version 2
a) "you are (deleted not) obligated to give out the source of any derived
work"
b) "Consider it being a GPL with eception that if you instantiate this
core in your design it does by itself make the resulting work
covered by GPL."

The version two is less probable, because it would be the standard GPL, so
no exception is needed at all.

BTW is the author of the MANIK the same Sandeep Dutta who originated the
SDCC compiler (http://sdcc.sf.net)?
In this case we owe MAAAAANY THANKS to him for all his open source
contributions ;-).
--
Wojtek
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 11:01 AM
Andreas Ehliar
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

On 2007-11-05, Wojciech Zabolotny <[email protected]> wrote:
> The OpenRisc and LEON3 seem to be too big for XC3S500E (or at least I
> was not able to trim them sufficiently for this FPGA).


You might be interested in looking at the Lattice Mico32 as well. It is
also open source and I know that people have used it on Xilinx devices.

/Andreas
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 11:16 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

I think he is the SDCC original author.
Vit


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:54 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

On Nov 5, 2:11 pm, Wojciech Zabolotny <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for a possibility to run Linux (may be a ucLinux) on a
> XC3S500E containing CPU and some custom peripherials.
> The hardware platform should be a Spartan3E Starter Kit (rev. D),
> or something like this.
>
> I have found the almost ready to use solution here:http://muranaka.info/pukiwiki/index....linux%20and%20...
> but it is MicroBlaze based, which is not acceptable for me due to
> licensing terms (which are even worse for the Ethernet MAC controller).
> Has anybody tried to use the aeMB clone with the free OpenCores Ethernet
> MAC controller with the MicroBlaze ucLinux?
>
> The OpenRisc and LEON3 seem to be too big for XC3S500E (or at least I
> was not able to trim them sufficiently for this FPGA).
>
> The most preferable solution seem to be a CPU which has a standard
> instruction set (e.g. Plasma, which is MIPS I compatible), because in
> this case the toolchain is well supported.
>
> However I could not find any information if it is possible to run Linux
> on the Plasma (or mips789) SOFT CPU.
> Has anybody any experience in that subject?
>
> There is an ideal solution announced on the OpenCores:http://www.opencores.org/projects.cg..._core/overview
> But it is only an idea (Development status :: alpha)
> --
> TIA & Regards,
> Wojtek Zabolotny


Linux will run on a soft CPU, including ones that fit into the
XC3S500. There are uClinux ports for both the MicroBlaze and NIOS.

A point to mention is that uClinux runs without a memory manager.
There just aren't enough gates to fit one in an FPGA.

If you can't find an open-source port to MicroBlaze or NIOS, look for
an ARM7 port. An ARM7 is an ARM9 with the memory manager removed.

Hope that helps,
G.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:20 PM
Wojciech Zabolotny
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?



On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, [email protected] wrote:

> Linux will run on a soft CPU, including ones that fit into the
> XC3S500. There are uClinux ports for both the MicroBlaze and NIOS.
>


Yes, I know, however I'm looking for an open solution, which I could both
give away to students, and to use in some research applications.
So the problem is that the cores should be open source and with
permissive (preferrably free or even GPL) license.

> A point to mention is that uClinux runs without a memory manager.
> There just aren't enough gates to fit one in an FPGA.
>
> If you can't find an open-source port to MicroBlaze or NIOS, look for
> an ARM7 port. An ARM7 is an ARM9 with the memory manager removed.
>


Well, however the only freely available synthesizable ARM7 implementation
is the nnARM, which after its disappearance from OpenCores in 2001 is
still available in many mirrors (just google for sARM_tb.zip ;-) ), but
AFAIK it is not safe to use due to legal issues (and is not complete as well).
--
Thanks and regards,
Wojtek

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:53 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Linux capable free/GPL SOFT CPU for XC3S500E?

On Nov 5, 2:11 pm, Wojciech Zabolotny <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for a possibility to run Linux (may be a ucLinux) on a
> XC3S500E containing CPU and some custom peripherials.
> The hardware platform should be a Spartan3E Starter Kit (rev. D),
> or something like this.
>
> I have found the almost ready to use solution here:http://muranaka.info/pukiwiki/index....linux%20and%20...
> but it is MicroBlaze based, which is not acceptable for me due to
> licensing terms (which are even worse for the Ethernet MAC controller).
> Has anybody tried to use the aeMB clone with the free OpenCores Ethernet
> MAC controller with the MicroBlaze ucLinux?
>
> The OpenRisc and LEON3 seem to be too big for XC3S500E (or at least I
> was not able to trim them sufficiently for this FPGA).
>
> The most preferable solution seem to be a CPU which has a standard
> instruction set (e.g. Plasma, which is MIPS I compatible), because in
> this case the toolchain is well supported.
>
> However I could not find any information if it is possible to run Linux
> on the Plasma (or mips789) SOFT CPU.
> Has anybody any experience in that subject?
>
> There is an ideal solution announced on the OpenCores:http://www.opencores.org/projects.cg..._core/overview
> But it is only an idea (Development status :: alpha)
> --
> TIA & Regards,
> Wojtek Zabolotny


Linux will run on a soft CPU, including ones that fit into the
XC3S500. There are uClinux ports for both the MicroBlaze and NIOS.

A point to mention is that uClinux runs without a memory manager.
There just aren't enough gates to fit one in an FPGA.

If you can't find an open-source port to MicroBlaze or NIOS, look for
an ARM7 port. An ARM7 is an ARM9 with the memory manager removed.

Hope that helps,
G.

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