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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2006, 07:13 PM
john
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Default Heating problem of the CPLD

Hello,

I am using atmel's ATF1508AS-7QC160. My clock frequency is 20MHz. Now,
my cpld some times work and sometimes does not work at that frequency.
If I lower the clcok frequency to 12MHz then it always work. bu tin
both cases the chip does get hot. I put a heat sink on the chip but if
the chip works for long hours then it effects its functionality. Can
anybody advice me how to slove this problem?

John

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2006, 07:21 PM
Austin Lesea
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Default Re: Heating problem of the CPLD

John,

"Quite hot"

Anyway to be more specific?

If you can hold your finger on it, that tells us one thing.

If you can't even touch it (as it is boiling water) that is another.

If it is somewhere in between, that tells us something else.

Austin

john wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am using atmel's ATF1508AS-7QC160. My clock frequency is 20MHz. Now,
> my cpld some times work and sometimes does not work at that frequency.
> If I lower the clcok frequency to 12MHz then it always work. bu tin
> both cases the chip does get hot. I put a heat sink on the chip but if
> the chip works for long hours then it effects its functionality. Can
> anybody advice me how to slove this problem?
>
> John
>

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2006, 07:36 PM
john
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Default Re: Heating problem of the CPLD

Hello,

Its something in between if the heat sink is on.

John

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2006, 07:55 PM
Austin Lesea
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Default Re: Heating problem of the CPLD

John,

Which tells me that with the heatsink, you may be right on the edge of
overheating the die (anyway). Without the heatsink, it is hopeless
(junction temperature is way out of spec).

Sounds to me like heat is the problem, but without real measurements, I
have no way of knowing for sure.

Austin

john wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Its something in between if the heat sink is on.
>
> John
>

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2006, 08:47 PM
John_H
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Default Re: Heating problem of the CPLD

I'd suggest you look for high-drive I/O or bus contention.
Your dynamic power consumption should be minimal so where is the power
going?
Have you looked at the part in "reduced power mode?" That might give you
insight into I/O versus core supply.

If the part draws 200 mA at 5V without I/O, 1W would be used to determine
the minimum case temperature from the theta-jc. Do you have thermal data
for that package? I only fount the mechanical info in the data sheet.


"john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I am using atmel's ATF1508AS-7QC160. My clock frequency is 20MHz. Now,
> my cpld some times work and sometimes does not work at that frequency.
> If I lower the clcok frequency to 12MHz then it always work. bu tin
> both cases the chip does get hot. I put a heat sink on the chip but if
> the chip works for long hours then it effects its functionality. Can
> anybody advice me how to slove this problem?
>
> John
>



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2006, 09:27 AM
Rene Tschaggelar
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Default Re: Heating problem of the CPLD

john wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am using atmel's ATF1508AS-7QC160. My clock frequency is 20MHz. Now,
> my cpld some times work and sometimes does not work at that frequency.
> If I lower the clcok frequency to 12MHz then it always work. bu tin
> both cases the chip does get hot. I put a heat sink on the chip but if
> the chip works for long hours then it effects its functionality. Can
> anybody advice me how to slove this problem?


Any open, unconnected inputs ?
Are the inputs on defined valid levels ?

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 02:03 AM
Jim Granville
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Default Re: Heating problem of the CPLD

john wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am using atmel's ATF1508AS-7QC160. My clock frequency is 20MHz. Now,
> my cpld some times work and sometimes does not work at that frequency.
> If I lower the clcok frequency to 12MHz then it always work. bu tin
> both cases the chip does get hot. I put a heat sink on the chip but if
> the chip works for long hours then it effects its functionality. Can
> anybody advice me how to slove this problem?


First, measure the Icc, and determine if it is close to the data sheet
typicals ( see the graphs ). If it is widely higher, then look for
shorted pins, floating IPs etc ( enable the PinKeepers )

In the ATF15xx series, you have a Reduced Power Mode (per macrocell)
option, that can save power, at the trade off of additional delay.
Use that on the MCells that do not have to be fast.

How many levels of logic do you have ? ~20MHz should be ok in a 1508,
but if you have a lot of logic levels, you will get the marginal
operation you describe - 20Mhz is 50ns full cycle, 25ns half cycle.

Look at the fitter .FIT report file, to see the levels of Logic,
and MC options.

-jg

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 11:40 AM
KJ
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Default Re: Heating problem of the CPLD


> I am using atmel's ATF1508AS-7QC160. My clock frequency is 20MHz. Now,
> my cpld some times work and sometimes does not work at that frequency.
> If I lower the clcok frequency to 12MHz then it always work. bu tin
> both cases the chip does get hot. I put a heat sink on the chip but if
> the chip works for long hours then it effects its functionality. Can
> anybody advice me how to slove this problem?
>
> John
>


I doubt that the problem has anything to do with 'heat' unless this is a
very unusual environment that you're in. That's just a symptom that you're
observing. It's most likely a timing problem. Some things to look for...
- Asynchronous input not being handled properly.
- Setup times are being violated.
- Is the clock frequency computed by the tool used to fit your design
telling you that it will run at the speeds you're running it at?

The actual timing of a device at a given moment is a function of device
temperature. Further, device temperature is a function of clock speed as
well.

Another occasional problem is if you're driving a lot of load from this
device (either lots of outputs switching simultaneously or just a few that
are heavily loaded sometimes). But I'd check into the timing first since
that's almost always where the problem is

KJ



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