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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 11:46 AM
vlsi_freak
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Default FPGA Configuration

Hello VLSI Engineers.

Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
making PCB with FPGA.

Thanks

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 11:48 AM
Antti
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Default Re: FPGA Configuration

On 29 Okt., 11:46, vlsi_freak <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello VLSI Engineers.
>
> Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
> How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
> making PCB with FPGA.
>
> Thanks


1 yes
2 read the documentation
3 yes read the documentation


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 12:13 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

>Hello VLSI Engineers.
>
> Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
>How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
>making PCB with FPGA.
>
>Thanks


First make sure you have a stable 6.3V AC heater supply (50Hz or 60Hz
is fine). The configuration bit stream is modulated onto this using
QPSK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-shift_keying).

You don't need HT during configuration, but a negative grid bias will
keep down leakage currents.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 04:45 PM
Peter Alfke
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Default Re: FPGA Configuration

I think we should give any new poster more than only a single chance
to make a fool of himself, before we start giving funny non-advice.
Peter Alfke

On Oct 29, 4:13 am, [email protected] wrote:
> >Hello VLSI Engineers.

>
> > Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
> >How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
> >making PCB with FPGA.

>
> >Thanks

>
> First make sure you have a stable 6.3V AC heater supply (50Hz or 60Hz
> is fine). The configuration bit stream is modulated onto this using
> QPSK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-shift_keying).
>
> You don't need HT during configuration, but a negative grid bias will
> keep down leakage currents.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 05:11 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

>I think we should give any new poster more than only a single chance
>to make a fool of himself, before we start giving funny non-advice.
>Peter Alfke


It depends on how lazy they seem to be. Where someone clearly has
made no significant effort to discover simple information for
themselves, why should we make a serious reply? My experience is that
those whose first resort is to ask someone else will continue to do it
until discouraged. I'd guess they are the people whose parents peeled
apples for them.

Since you work for a vendor, perhaps it's your job continually to
spoon-feed those who find it tiresome to open a book, to spend a few
seconds on Google or, in this case, to download the manufacturer's
data sheet. The rest of us don't have time for lazy people. There
are enough serious problems to be addressed.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 06:16 PM
Peter Alfke
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Default Re: FPGA Configuration

Good apple-peeling analogy.
Spoiled brats, too lazy to think, read, or google...
Peter

On Oct 29, 9:11 am, [email protected] wrote:
> >I think we should give any new poster more than only a single chance
> >to make a fool of himself, before we start giving funny non-advice.
> >Peter Alfke

>
> It depends on how lazy they seem to be. Where someone clearly has
> made no significant effort to discover simple information for
> themselves, why should we make a serious reply? My experience is that
> those whose first resort is to ask someone else will continue to do it
> until discouraged. I'd guess they are the people whose parents peeled
> apples for them.
>
> Since you work for a vendor, perhaps it's your job continually to
> spoon-feed those who find it tiresome to open a book, to spend a few
> seconds on Google or, in this case, to download the manufacturer's
> data sheet. The rest of us don't have time for lazy people. There
> are enough serious problems to be addressed.



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 06:16 PM
Symon
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> >Hello VLSI Engineers.
>>
>> Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
>>How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
>>making PCB with FPGA.
>>
>>Thanks

>
> First make sure you have a stable 6.3V AC heater supply (50Hz or 60Hz
> is fine). The configuration bit stream is modulated onto this using
> QPSK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-shift_keying).
>
> You don't need HT during configuration, but a negative grid bias will
> keep down leakage currents.


Hi Mike,
As it happens, this came up at the weekend in a discussion with some old
friends I hadn't seen for a while. I agree with you that it's a good idea to
configure the FPGA with a valves. (Tubes in the US). The bits are warmer and
more rounded. (This latter property is useful in fixed point DSP
implementations). Although transistor fed bits are cleaner, the valve fed
bits have more air. It is absolutely vital that, whether using solid state
or vapour state programming, the configuration traces on the PCB are made of
oxygen free copper. Otherwise, the bits get too much air. I expect.
HTH., Syms.

p.s. http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 08:23 PM
John_H
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

"Symon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> >Hello VLSI Engineers.
>>>
>>> Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
>>>How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
>>>making PCB with FPGA.
>>>
>>>Thanks

>>
>> First make sure you have a stable 6.3V AC heater supply (50Hz or 60Hz
>> is fine). The configuration bit stream is modulated onto this using
>> QPSK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-shift_keying).
>>
>> You don't need HT during configuration, but a negative grid bias will
>> keep down leakage currents.

>
> Hi Mike,
> As it happens, this came up at the weekend in a discussion with some old
> friends I hadn't seen for a while. I agree with you that it's a good idea
> to configure the FPGA with a valves. (Tubes in the US). The bits are
> warmer and more rounded. (This latter property is useful in fixed point
> DSP implementations). Although transistor fed bits are cleaner, the valve
> fed bits have more air. It is absolutely vital that, whether using solid
> state or vapour state programming, the configuration traces on the PCB are
> made of oxygen free copper. Otherwise, the bits get too much air. I
> expect.
> HTH., Syms.
>
> p.s. http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4


I can understand the differences in air, but as much as the marketers and
"electrophyles" talk about it, I just can't tell any difference in bit
roundness.


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 09:33 PM
KJ
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

On Oct 29, 3:23 pm, "John_H" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I can understand the differences in air, but as much as the marketers and
> "electrophyles" talk about it, I just can't tell any difference in bit
> roundness.- Hide quoted text -
>


0 is the round bit
1 is the pointy bit

KJ

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 09:38 PM
Andy
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

On Oct 29, 2:23 pm, "John_H" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Symon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
>
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected] .
> >> >Hello VLSI Engineers.

>
> >>> Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
> >>>How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
> >>>making PCB with FPGA.

>
> >>>Thanks

>
> >> First make sure you have a stable 6.3V AC heater supply (50Hz or 60Hz
> >> is fine). The configuration bit stream is modulated onto this using
> >> QPSK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-shift_keying).

>
> >> You don't need HT during configuration, but a negative grid bias will
> >> keep down leakage currents.

>
> > Hi Mike,
> > As it happens, this came up at the weekend in a discussion with some old
> > friends I hadn't seen for a while. I agree with you that it's a good idea
> > to configure the FPGA with a valves. (Tubes in the US). The bits are
> > warmer and more rounded. (This latter property is useful in fixed point
> > DSP implementations). Although transistor fed bits are cleaner, the valve
> > fed bits have more air. It is absolutely vital that, whether using solid
> > state or vapour state programming, the configuration traces on the PCB are
> > made of oxygen free copper. Otherwise, the bits get too much air. I
> > expect.
> > HTH., Syms.

>
> > p.s.http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4

>
> I can understand the differences in air, but as much as the marketers and
> "electrophyles" talk about it, I just can't tell any difference in bit
> roundness.


The more round the bits, the better they take the corners...

Andy

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:08 AM
Thomas Stanka
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

On 29 Okt., 11:48, Antti <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 29 Okt., 11:46, vlsi_freak <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
> > How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
> > making PCB with FPGA.

>
>
> 1 yes
> 2 read the documentation
> 3 yes read the documentation



Atti you should be more precise in aswer 1:
1a) Yes (see eg. www.xilinx.com)
1b) No (see eg. www.actel.com)

bye Thomas

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:20 AM
Antti
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: FPGA Configuration

On 30 Okt., 07:08, Thomas Stanka <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 29 Okt., 11:48, Antti <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 29 Okt., 11:46, vlsi_freak <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Its is true that FPGA boots its program from an external PROM.
> > > How external eproms are connected to FPGA. Is there any requirement in
> > > making PCB with FPGA.

>
> > 1 yes
> > 2 read the documentation
> > 3 yes read the documentation

>
> Atti you should be more precise in aswer 1:
> 1a) Yes (see eg.www.xilinx.com)
> 1b) No (see eg.www.actel.com)
>
> bye Thomas


Hi Thomas

you could have been more precise with the spelling too

I was wondering when somebody makes this remark, you are right 1) is
YES/NO
YES
* Xilinx all except S3AN
* Altera all except MAX2 (I think its more a FPGA than CPLD)
* Lattice all except XP,XP2,machXO,ispFPGA

NO
* Actel all
* Quicklogic all
* Altera MAX2
* Lattice XP,XP2,machXO,ispFPGA
* Xilinx S3AN

A N T T I








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