New Xilinx forum.

Hey Guys,
Did any of you get an email like this last weekend(see below)?
What a crock! Like a mug, I signed in tonight with my regular Xilinx login,
to check it out. Not exactly popular yet...

I'm uncomfortable with an FPGA forum controlled by one of the de facto
duopoly. (Sorry 'L' :-| ) I'd prefer they spent their effort on the public
forum we already have.

Anyway, if you post here on CAF and didn't get an email, clearly you're not
a 'significant' contributor. I wonder what one has to do to be significant?

Cheers, Syms.



Symon,

Thank you for your support and use of Xilinx products. We have recognized
you as a significant contributor in regards to Xilinx products on
comp.arch.fpga and would like to invite you to join our new Xilinx User
Community. It will be opening to the public on August 13, 2007.


Please see the information below on how to join.

Sincerely,

[Redacted]
Customer Applications Manager

Symon,

Well, all I can say, is that this is an attempt to improve our service.

As everyone here knows, c.a.f. is open to everyone, and anyone, and
there is no censorship (so most Xilinx employees will not post here).

It was felt that a true Xilinx sponsored forum might be beneficial -
allow direct communication.

Obviously, Peter and I feel a little odd, as we felt we were doing a
good job here on c.a.f. (Perhaps we are, but more is needed?).

But, in defense of those who feel that a "real Xilinx forum" has value,
I am going to advise folks to give it a try.

After all, if people use it, and find it valuable, then it serves a purpose.

If it is of no utility, it will die a natural 'Internet Death', and go away.

Take it as an opportunity. After all, there will be 'real' applications
engineers and hotline folks who will be monitoring this new forum (whose
job it is to make customers happy).

For every post here, I must consider my competition is reading every
word, and just waiting to pounce. That does not allow me the freedom
that some other forum might offer.

Austin

On Aug 7, 5:37 pm, "Symon" <symon_bre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> Did any of you get an email like this last weekend(see below)?
> What a crock! Like a mug, I signed in tonight with my regular Xilinx login,
> to check it out. Not exactly popular yet...

Sigh, just what we need, more places to look for info. Granted the
noise level here is high, but the signal is even lower at vendor
specific "web forums". The Altera one is particularily horrid with
multiple subdivisions, all with near-zero contents.

Alas, this is not going aways as marketing department want to
"control" the information and with a web forum they can pull articles
that doesn't follow the party line. (I'm not paranoid, I've seen the
inside of such forums).

Grumble,
Tommy

austin <[email protected]> writes:
> there is no censorship (so most Xilinx employees will not post here).

Could you explain this? It sounds like Xilinx employees are afraid of
people giving their honest opinions of Xilinx's posts.

Symon wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> Did any of you get an email like this last weekend(see below)?

<snip>

I got an invite to the forum, too. Interesting point: they used the
email I haven't used in a year and didn't duplicate to the address I've
been using since.

I'd love to see more EDK issues go to the forum since those are
Xilinx-specific issues.

I remember when Xilinx had their own forum. I'd check posts there and
on the newsgroup when I first started perusing the boards. It didn't
seem the forum was very helpful back then with some of the questions
asked in both places anyway.

If Xilinx-specific issues can be handled on the forum, more power to
everyone who uses it!

I don't think I'll bother signing on. Besides - my next chip has to be
brand A. :-/ I got the pricing and experience from brand X but someone
else across the country got the pricing and experience to take me back
down a road from my distant past. Oh well. I *was* originally going to
use Lattice for the project, anyway. :-)

- John_H

Symon wrote:
> Anyway, if you post here on CAF and didn't get an email, clearly you're not
> a 'significant' contributor. I wonder what one has to do to be significant?

My take on 'significant' was that anyone with a pulse was asked !

-jg

austin wrote:

> Symon,
>
> Well, all I can say, is that this is an attempt to improve our service.
>
> As everyone here knows, c.a.f. is open to everyone, and anyone, and
> there is no censorship (so most Xilinx employees will not post here).

??


> For every post here, I must consider my competition is reading every
> word, and just waiting to pounce. That does not allow me the freedom
> that some other forum might offer.

Not sure I follow the reasoning. Surely ANY forum could have lurkers,
but perhaps the Altera lurkers are less likely to point out
'excessive arm waving' in a closed Xilinx forum, and thus users miss
out on an important reality check.
That could be exactly what you meant by 'waiting to pounce' [..on
bogus claims?]. I can see that may be an advantage to Xilinx spin, but
how is that an advantage for a customer ?

-jg

I think that scattering the ressources makes them less useful. The
only benefit I can see over c.a.f is the access to more Xilinx
engineers. But that is something that the combination of WebCase/
AnswersDatabase fulfills allready.

Instead of fragmenting the newsgroup I would have thought that adding
real new functionality that the newsgroup can't solve would have been
more useful. Some suggestions of Web 2.0 features for Xilinx that come
to mind:

- allow users to add comments to answer records
I spend a lot of time browsing through answers, and sometimes I find
answers that are related but not linked, or solutions that also apply
to other bugs, not immediately listed, or incomplete answers, or
better solutions to the same bug, or find out that the same solution
also applies to other versions of the software not listed in the
original record

- allow users to write their own answer records.
This process could be moderated

- have a bug tracker
I often stumble over problems that I immediately have a workaround
for, but that should be fixed in later versions of the software
anyway. I sometimes file a webcase noting that the case can be
closed immediately once it is escalated to the developers.
However, I believe there is both more incentive to posting bug, and
also more opportunity to help the softwaredevelopers to understand a
bug, if the processing of the bug is visible, like it is in open
source projects. Also, other users can find the bug in the database
and can add their test cases, etc.

Kolja Sulimma

On Aug 8, 3:30 am, austin <aus...@xilinx.com> wrote:
> As everyone here knows, c.a.f. is open to everyone, and anyone, and
> there is no censorship (so most Xilinx employees will not post here).

It is really easy to set up an interface server that allows xilinx to
moderate posts to c.a.f by its employees.

Kolja Sulimma

DJ,

Xilinx has policies about employees communicating in any public forum
(like any company). Anything posted here by an employee has to be in
compliance with Xilinx policies. Violation of these policies is grounds
for dismissal.

One has to "keep their cool" and be fully aware that regardless of the
provocation, there are lines we can not cross. Most employees would
rather not deal with this. There are about five employees (total) that
accept the risks, know the rules, and post here. Peter and I keep track
of all Xilinx employees who post, and discuss the requirements with them.

In a discussion group that we directly control, we have more options.

'Honesty' has nothing to do with it.

Austin

DJ Delorie wrote:
> austin <[email protected]> writes:
>> there is no censorship (so most Xilinx employees will not post here).
>
> Could you explain this? It sounds like Xilinx employees are afraid of
> people giving their honest opinions of Xilinx's posts.

Jim,

That was not clear. I see now that statement was confusing (rambling,
etc.).

1. it is a public forum
2. there is no censorship
3. Xilinx has policies for communication in public forums (the general
rule: it is not allowed whatsoever)
4. we are a very large target (and there are some who enjoy bashing us)

Take each item above as an independent statement.

Every post made is re-read at least six times, and then edited
(sometimes removing stuff, and even often deleting the whole thing).

Austin

Perhaps,

But, if the policy is that no Xilinx employee should be communicating in
any pubic forum without permission and review, why bother?

Creating a non-public forum may have benefit.

Austin

Tommy,

I encourage everyone to vote with their keyboards: to post, or not to
post. On c.a.f. or on a private forum.

Your choice.

Peter and I will remain over here in c.a.f. land (unless everyone leaves).

Austin

On Aug 7, 6:30 pm, austin <aus...@xilinx.com> wrote:
> Symon,
>
> Well, all I can say, is that this is an attempt to improve our service.
>
> As everyone here knows, c.a.f. is open to everyone, and anyone, and
> there is no censorship (so most Xilinx employees will not post here).
>
> It was felt that a true Xilinx sponsored forum might be beneficial -
> allow direct communication.
>
> Obviously, Peter and I feel a little odd, as we felt we were doing a
> good job here on c.a.f. (Perhaps we are, but more is needed?).
>
> But, in defense of those who feel that a "real Xilinx forum" has value,
> I am going to advise folks to give it a try.
>
> After all, if people use it, and find it valuable, then it serves a purpose.
>
> If it is of no utility, it will die a natural 'Internet Death', and go away.
>
> Take it as an opportunity. After all, there will be 'real' applications
> engineers and hotline folks who will be monitoring this new forum (whose
> job it is to make customers happy).
>
> For every post here, I must consider my competition is reading every
> word, and just waiting to pounce. That does not allow me the freedom
> that some other forum might offer.
>
> Austin

Xilinx has had private forums for years (http://toolbox.xilinx.com/cgi-
bin/forum). I read them for a while, but it seemed that many people
were posting questions, but very few were answered. What will be
different about this new deal?

Barry

Barry,

What will be new?

I really don't know. I have looked at the webpages, and templates, and
it seems to me, that since staff are assigned to reply and participate,
this might be very useful.

Austin

>
> I'm uncomfortable with an FPGA forum controlled by one of the de facto
> duopoly. (Sorry 'L' :-| ) I'd prefer they spent their effort on the public
> forum we already have.
>

Symon,

Altera has been involved in several web forums for customers
discussing its products for quite a while now. The Nios forum
(www.niosforum.com) has been around since about 2004 as I recall.
About the only moderating I've seen done was removing spam before the
forum software could be updated to filter out bogus registrations.
Many people voice their design problems, questions, rants, etc., as
you would expect. There has been a great involvement with users
helping each other as well as employees fielding questions. I'm not as
active there as I used to be but I don't see any signs of that
changing. It has seen quite a lot of traffic and a large user base
develop over the years.

More recently, Altera launched another forum site for general Altera
tools/devices/etc (www.alteraforum.com).

Anyway, I cannot speak for how X will run their new forum site, but
before casting blanket judgment I invite you to browse around at the
existing sites to see how they are run and what people are posting/
what support they're getting out of it. At the same time, I can see
how a brand-agnostic technology forum would be great. For now, it
seems that this news group continues to fill that void. I've seen
several FPGA related but non-brand-specific web sites start over the
past several years but have not seen many take root.

There is a great deal of functionality that a modern web based forum
can provide that leaves usenet in the dust anyways. For example, being
able to freely host design files showing an example, screen shot of a
problem, etc.; things usenet will ultimately die off to. (Nothing
against c.a.f per se; this is about the only of several news groups I
used to read that still looks interesting at all).

Jesse Kempa
Altera

austin wrote:
> DJ,
>
> Xilinx has policies about employees communicating in any public forum
> (like any company). Anything posted here by an employee has to be in
> compliance with Xilinx policies. Violation of these policies is grounds
> for dismissal.

Only for FPGA related topics or for anything ?

In anycase, that doesn't sounds quite right to me ... but maybe it's common in the US ...


Sylvain

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
> >
>> I'm uncomfortable with an FPGA forum controlled by one of the de facto
>> duopoly. (Sorry 'L' :-| ) I'd prefer they spent their effort on the
>> public
>> forum we already have.
>>
>
> Symon,
>
<snip>
> what support they're getting out of it. At the same time, I can see
> how a brand-agnostic technology forum would be great. For now, it
> seems that this news group continues to fill that void. I've seen
> several FPGA related but non-brand-specific web sites start over the
> past several years but have not seen many take root.
>
> There is a great deal of functionality that a modern web based forum
> can provide that leaves usenet in the dust anyways. For example, being
> able to freely host design files showing an example, screen shot of a
> problem, etc.; things usenet will ultimately die off to. (Nothing
> against c.a.f per se; this is about the only of several news groups I
> used to read that still looks interesting at all).
>
> Jesse Kempa
> Altera
>
Hi Jesse,
Thanks for those good points in your post. I agree that pictures may be a
help, that ASCII art sometimes runs out of steam.
However, even today when I've not just returned from the pub {ahem}, I still
think the 'brand-agnostic' argument still swings it for me at the moment. It
might be hard for a company to leave critical comments on its own website.
Those bloody shareholders might start complaining...
Anyway, time will tell.
Thanks again for replying.
Cheers, Syms.

[email protected] wrote:

> For example, being
> able to freely host design files showing an example, screen shot of a
> problem, etc.; things usenet will ultimately die off to.

Usenet is not yet moribund.
Ideas work fine in text, and
it's quite easy to post an http link
to a pdf/graphic file when need be.

Most internet providers allow
customers a free ftp account and a
moderate amount of free space
to play with.

-- Mike Treseler

I heard about this forum a while ago, and I will participate there as
well as here at comp.arch.fpga.
I am sure that more Xilinx employees will participate in the forum,
since it is a more sheltered environment.
I like analogies:
Participating in c.a.f. is like standing on a soapbox at Hyde Park
Corner, surrounded by people who throw questions (friendly or nasty,
open or anonymous) at you, and you want to answer them as best as
possible, while you sometimes get quite annoyed by certain questions.
Keeping your cool, keeping your professional reputation, and staying
loyal to your employer is not an easy juggling task, in a critical and
sometimes hostile environment. That's why so few people from Xilinx or
Altera appear here.

A forum is more like inviting some people for a beer in a pub, to have
a sensible conversation, where you can let your hair down, and
maintain a more civilized atmosphere, ans use more than only ASCII
characters.

We'll see how it turns out. I will join both parties, as will Austin.
Peter

austin <[email protected]> wrote:

>Symon,
>
>Well, all I can say, is that this is an attempt to improve our service.
>
>As everyone here knows, c.a.f. is open to everyone, and anyone, and
>there is no censorship (so most Xilinx employees will not post here).
>
>It was felt that a true Xilinx sponsored forum might be beneficial -
>allow direct communication.
>
>Obviously, Peter and I feel a little odd, as we felt we were doing a
>good job here on c.a.f. (Perhaps we are, but more is needed?).

More would be nice. The Xilinx website ain't the most user friendly
and fastest website. In fact, I try to avoid it if possible.

Okay, it is not so bad as NXP's website (which is about the worst
possible website). <rant> 'Let's make things better' didn't happen and
'sense and simplicity'... well they should get a dictionary... </rant>

>But, in defense of those who feel that a "real Xilinx forum" has value,
>I am going to advise folks to give it a try.
>
>After all, if people use it, and find it valuable, then it serves a purpose.
>
>If it is of no utility, it will die a natural 'Internet Death', and go away.
>
>Take it as an opportunity. After all, there will be 'real' applications
>engineers and hotline folks who will be monitoring this new forum (whose
>job it is to make customers happy).
>
>For every post here, I must consider my competition is reading every
>word, and just waiting to pounce. That does not allow me the freedom
>that some other forum might offer.
>
>Austin

And what makes you so sure the competition is not reading Xilinx's own
forum? I bet the people from Altera and Lattice (to name some in
alphabetical order) already have their logins.

--
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

In news:[email protected] oups.com
timestamped Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:33:23 -0000, [email protected] posted:
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"[..] |
| |
|There is a great deal of functionality that a modern web based forum |
|can provide that leaves usenet in the dust anyways. For example, being |
|able to freely host design files showing an example, screen shot of a |
|problem, etc.; things usenet will ultimately die off to. [..] |
| |
|Jesse Kempa |
|Altera" |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

It is possible to attach screenshots to newsgroup posts.

Regards,
Colin Paul Gloster

On Aug 8, 10:54 am, austin <aus...@xilinx.com> wrote:
> Perhaps,
>
> But, if the policy is that no Xilinx employee should be communicating in
> any pubic forum without permission and review, why bother?
Freudian slip there on the type of forum that the Xilinx employees
need permission for.....but a funny one none the less.

>
> Creating a non-public forum may have benefit.
>
> Austin
It's probably best left to the lawyers, but I don't think Xilinx
ownership of the forum which they then invite non-Xilinx employees to
join would constitute a 'non-public forum' without those non-X people
signing a non-disclosure agreement. Bottom line is that I think the X
forum is still most likely a 'public forum' and the X employees
probably should still treat it as such from the standpoint of possible
dismissal from the company.

KJ

Colin Paul Gloster wrote:

> It is possible to attach screenshots to newsgroup posts.

However, non-text attachments are filtered
from usenet exchanges. An http reference to
a graphics file works because it is a text
pointer.

-- Mike Treseler

On Aug 9, 9:34 am, KJ <Kevin.Jenni...@Unisys.com> wrote:
> It's probably best left to the lawyers, but I don't think Xilinx
> ownership of the forum which they then invite non-Xilinx employees to
> join would constitute a 'non-public forum' without those non-X people
> signing a non-disclosure agreement. Bottom line is that I think the X
> forum is still most likely a 'public forum' and the X employees
> probably should still treat it as such from the standpoint of possible
> dismissal from the company.
> KJ