Cheapest FPGA board to study VHDL on

Figured this was the place to ask (comp.arch.embedded or comp.arch.fpga)

Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?

Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
leds) < $100

I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance

I'm sure you have seen it on Ebay but have a look at our Raggedstone1.
Ebay wise look for the non-EEC price if you are in the US. Similar
pricing on our own website. It just about gets under you $100 mark
depending on the current exchange rate. For something much cheaper you
probably talking about a CPLD board.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

samiam wrote:
> Figured this was the place to ask (comp.arch.embedded or comp.arch.fpga)
>
> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
> Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
> switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
> leds) < $100
>
> I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance

samiam wrote:

> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?

To learn vhdl, all you need is a simulator
to verify your uut and testbench code
and quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.

A board is of little value until
the code is complete and tested.

-- Mike Treseler

Thanks John. Ill take a look

John Adair wrote:
> I'm sure you have seen it on Ebay but have a look at our Raggedstone1.
> Ebay wise look for the non-EEC price if you are in the US. Similar
> pricing on our own website. It just about gets under you $100 mark
> depending on the current exchange rate. For something much cheaper you
> probably talking about a CPLD board.
>
> John Adair
> Enterpoint Ltd.
>

Mike, I felt that having an FPGA board, where I can download the code,
and do things ... "see" the results for myself, would only serve to
reinforce what I am reading

A simulator is one thing ... "seeing" the results on bare metal is
another


Mike Treseler wrote:
> samiam wrote:
>
>> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
> To learn vhdl, all you need is a simulator
> to verify your uut and testbench code
> and quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.
>
> A board is of little value until
> the code is complete and tested.
>
> -- Mike Treseler

Unless you are trying to interface to something else, and need to prove
that what you designed can talk to it, a simulator will "show" you much
more than you will ever see from an FPGA board. I'm not saying there is
anything wrong with the satisfaction that is gained from seeing your
project "working in real life", but that has nothing to do with any
reinforcement of knowledge gained. I should add that the insights
gained through thorough simulation (both rtl and gate-level, post-route
timing simulations), synthesis, place & route, and static timing
analysis will far exceed those gained from "seeing" it work.

But seeing it work will probably provide more satisfaction than all
those activities.

Andy


samiam wrote:
> Mike, I felt that having an FPGA board, where I can download the code,
> and do things ... "see" the results for myself, would only serve to
> reinforce what I am reading
>
> A simulator is one thing ... "seeing" the results on bare metal is
> another
>
>
> Mike Treseler wrote:
> > samiam wrote:
> >
> >> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
> >
> > To learn vhdl, all you need is a simulator
> > to verify your uut and testbench code
> > and quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.
> >
> > A board is of little value until
> > the code is complete and tested.
> >
> > -- Mike Treseler

samiam <[email protected]> writes:

> I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
> Any suggestions?

Altera MAXII developers kit. I think this was $99 last time I
checked. It has LED's, USB, LCD display, temprature sensor, PCI, etc.

Petter
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Petter Gustad wrote:
> samiam <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
> > Any suggestions?
>
> Altera MAXII developers kit. I think this was $99 last time I
> checked. It has LED's, USB, LCD display, temprature sensor, PCI, etc.
>
> Petter
> --
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

i'm thinking of getting the MAX II $100 board too. can it work external
to the pc or pci only. does it auto program, can it be used to program
other cpld and can the display be made external off board, for case
mounting? i'd have to revert to on board gfx again as no free pci while
agp in use.

cheers

Petter Gustad wrote:

> Altera MAXII developers kit. I think this was $99 last time I
> checked. It has LED's, USB, LCD display, temprature sensor, PCI, etc.

Do you mean this board?

http://www.altera.com/products/devki...axii-1270.html

Looks like it costs $150 and it is an CPLD, only. And do you need an
additional programmer for it? If you want to try Altera and want to spend
$149, this is a nice board:

http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/pa...oryNo=39&No=14

Anything is included on the board, like USB Blaster for programming and it
has some nice interfaces, like video out and audio in/out and demo version
of Nios etc.

If you want to try Xilinx, Spartan3 is nice, too and costs $99 (there is
anything included, too, so you don't need any additional programmer) :

http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/...2=Programmable

I'm sure Lattice and other vendors have good development boards, too, but I
have tested both boards, the Spartan 3 starter kit (and Spartan 3E starter
kit) and the TREX C1, so I can guarantee that they are very good for this
price.

--
Frank Buss, [email protected]
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de

samiam wrote:

> Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
> switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
> leds) < $100

Altium LiveDesign (USD$99)

<http://www.altium.com/Products/AltiumDesigner/LiveDesign/>

Regards,

--
Mark McDougall, Engineer
Virtual Logic Pty Ltd, <http://www.vl.com.au>
21-25 King St, Rockdale, 2216
Ph: +612-9599-3255 Fax: +612-9599-3266

Mark McDougall wrote:
> samiam wrote:
>
>
>>Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
>>switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
>>leds) < $100
>
>
> Altium LiveDesign (USD$99)
>
> <http://www.altium.com/Products/AltiumDesigner/LiveDesign/>
>
> Regards,
>

http://www.knjn.com/ShopBoards_Parallel.html

In article <vHsZg.77479$[email protected]>, samiam
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Figured this was the place to ask (comp.arch.embedded or comp.arch.fpga)
>
> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
> Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
> switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
> leds) < $100

Digilent has a $59 board with a 100k-gate FPGA, switches, port
connectors, LEDs etc.
http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=BASYS
And check out their other boards to see how much more you can get with
further increments of money.

As it says, the board costs less than the textbook.

http://www.fpga4fun.com/ and the affiliated store http://www.knjn.com
also has a variety of lost-cost FPGA boards.

I think that seeing something work in reality is an important part of
learning, even though simulators give you more insight into what's
happening. Otherwise you get to your first real design after a few
years of learning VHDL and then you ask 'what does non-synthesizable
mean?'

After all, if you never intend to implement your design on an FPGA,
what's the point in learning VHDL?

--
David M. Palmer [email protected] (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:33:31 +0000, samiam wrote:

> Figured this was the place to ask (comp.arch.embedded or comp.arch.fpga)
>
> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
> Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
> switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
> leds) < $100
>
> I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance

I pretty sure that xilinx has some spartan 3 starter boards for $100 too.
Look on their estore.

Mike Treseler wrote:

> To learn vhdl, all you need is a simulator
> to verify your uut and testbench code
> and quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.
>

That's true, but it's not much fun.

> A board is of little value until
> the code is complete and tested.
>

You don't need a lot to get the code complete and compiled. You can
learn a lot about testing by comparing what you meant it to do with what
actually happens in the real world. And acquiring the skills of using
the scope to debug hardware is a useful exercise in itself, if the OP
doesn't know it already. And it's fun.

These people do some low- cost FPGA boards. You can probably get the
VHDL stuff free from the FPGA vendor.

Paul Burke

David M. Palmer wrote:
>
> I think that seeing something work in reality is an important part of
> learning, even though simulators give you more insight into what's
> happening. Otherwise you get to your first real design after a few
> years of learning VHDL and then you ask 'what does non-synthesizable
> mean?'
>
> After all, if you never intend to implement your design on an FPGA,
> what's the point in learning VHDL?
>

I think that Andy got exactly the point:
> Unless you are trying to interface to something else, and need to prove
> that what you designed can talk to it, a simulator will "show" you much
> more than you will ever see from an FPGA board.

As far as I understood we are talking about "learning VHDL" (as samian
asked), not implementing a project which will have an interface with
some other stuff.
The only limitation in simulation is to think about all the cases your
hardware will run through and this is where hardware is most probably
needed, just because you missed to simulate a rare (but possible) case.
But on a stand alone project I think that an evaluation board is even
less needed (even because most of the time you will not implement on
evaluation board, but on custom made boards or some others "standard
programmable" boards).
This will save you money and will let you concentrate on the most
important point (to me) at the very beginning: functional vhdl verification.

Mike Treseler:
> To learn vhdl, all you need is a simulator
> to verify your uut and testbench code
> and quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.
>

and I totally agree.


--
Alessandro Basili
CERN, PH/UGC
Hardware Designer

samiam wrote:
> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
> Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
> switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
> leds) < $100

Any of the Digilent boards are great resources, and there are lots of
Univ classes designed around them.

They are all very affordable.

If you are a Univ student, I'd suggest getting the XUP-V2PRO board ...
best value on the planet, and amazing resale value

If you want to build projects which are FPGA based, I'd suggest
something like one of the Spartan boards ... combined with a proto
board. Get one with more gates than you need, don't skimp ... as most
of the MicroCore projects are fun later.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:33:31 GMT, samiam <[email protected]> wrote:

>Figured this was the place to ask (comp.arch.embedded or comp.arch.fpga)
>
>Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
>Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
>switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
>leds) < $100
>
>I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
>Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks in advance

This is another low-cost option - not many IOs but easy to add your own on some protoboard :
http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/cata...products_id=81

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:38:36 -0700, Mike Treseler <[email protected]> wrote:

>samiam wrote:
>
>> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
>To learn vhdl, all you need is a simulator
>to verify your uut and testbench code
>and quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.
>
>A board is of little value until
>the code is complete and tested.
>
> -- Mike Treseler

If you want to get something running as quickly as possible, some more practically-inclined people
may prefer to dive straight in & play to get a feel of things. Different things work for differnt
people.
I taught myself about FPGAs & VHDL recently by completing a fairly complex project (including TFT
display. SDRAM interface) without going anywhere near a simulator. I did however have a very good
digital scope.
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/ektapro.html#newcont

samiam wrote:
> Figured this was the place to ask (comp.arch.embedded or comp.arch.fpga)
>
> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
> Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
> switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
> leds) < $100
>
> I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance

The Digilent/Xilinx Spartan 3 Starter Kit is $99, and should do
everything you want.

Leon

Frank Buss <[email protected]> writes:

> Petter Gustad wrote:
>
> > Altera MAXII developers kit. I think this was $99 last time I
> > checked. It has LED's, USB, LCD display, temprature sensor, PCI, etc.
>
> Do you mean this board?
>
> http://www.altera.com/products/devki...axii-1270.html
>
> Looks like it costs $150 and it is an CPLD, only. And do you need an
> additional programmer for it? If you want to try Altera and want to spend

A byteblaster II prgramming cable is included. I got the board for $99
once. Maybe it was a special deal. The MAXII is a CPLD, but looks much
like an FPGA even though there is an internal FLASH for configuration
and user data.

The Spartan3 is a nice starter kit as well.

Petter
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

"jacko" <[email protected]> writes:

> i'm thinking of getting the MAX II $100 board too. can it work external
> to the pc or pci only. does it auto program, can it be used to program
> other cpld and can the display be made external off board, for case
> mounting? i'd have to revert to on board gfx again as no free pci while
> agp in use.

It can be powered by USB so you don't need to have it in your PCI slot
unless you will be designing some PCI logic. I don't know what you
mean by autoprogram, but you download the programming file into the
internal FLASH in the MAXII. When you power it on it will load the
configuration from there. You can use it to program other devices, but
that will require you to design some logic. Actually I use the board
to program some microcontrollers over USB.

Petter
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

samiam wrote:
> Mike, I felt that having an FPGA board, where I can download the code,
> and do things ... "see" the results for myself, would only serve to
> reinforce what I am reading
>
> A simulator is one thing ... "seeing" the results on bare metal is
> another

Sorry I rained on your parade.
Trial and error synthesis using a logic analyzer works also.
I guess I spent too many years hooking up those
little clip leads and waiting for a trigger.

-- Mike Treseler

> Digilent has a $59 board with a 100k-gate FPGA, switches, port
> connectors, LEDs etc.
> http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=BASYS

BINGO!!!

Id like to start there ... after I have gained some experience, I can
buy a more more expensive FPGA board with larger resources

Thanks

> I think that seeing something work in reality is an important part of
> learning, even though simulators give you more insight into what's
> happening. Otherwise you get to your first real design after a few
> years of learning VHDL and then you ask 'what does non-synthesizable
> mean?'

I like to put equal time in reading/research as I do in "lab work".

Theres a certain joy and "ahah" factor that comes from seeing the
results in front of you.

priceless!

Mike Treseler wrote:
> Sorry I rained on your parade.
> Trial and error synthesis using a logic analyzer works also.
> I guess I spent too many years hooking up those
> little clip leads and waiting for a trigger.

Not only are HP16xxx logic analyzers cheap on eBay these days, but
making one out of an FPGA is yet another fun project.

visit this page
http://digilentinc.com/Products/Cata...mmable%20Logic
u will find very good $99 boards including spartan 3 starter kit.

On Oct 18, 9:33 pm, samiam <samiamSPAMT...@spamalert.com> wrote:
> Figured this was the place to ask (comp.arch.embedded or comp.arch.fpga)
>
> Whats the cheapest board to study VHDL on?
>
> Ideally Id like an FPGA based board with a few inputs (dip
> switches,toggles?), some outputs (parallel or serial connector, some
> leds) < $100
>
> I am looking on ebay now, and I see one or two boards well above $100.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance