FPGA Central

Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development kit
to practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a few
output pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK
based distributors would be preferred.

"Tom Lucas" <news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote in
message news:[email protected]..
> Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development kit to
> practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a few output
> pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK based
> distributors would be preferred.


Maybe something here? )

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/sear...satitle=xilinx

--
Regards,
Richard.

+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org
13 official architecture ports, 1000 downloads per week.

+ http://www.SafeRTOS.com
Certified by TÜV as meeting the requirements for safety related systems.

"FreeRTOS.org" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:HZsMi.24379$[email protected] .uk...
> "Tom Lucas" <news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote
> in message news:[email protected]..
>> Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development
>> kit to practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle
>> a few output pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads
>> etc. UK based distributors would be preferred.
>
>
> Maybe something here? )
>
> http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/sear...satitle=xilinx
>

You'd have thought there would have been something but it all seems thin
on the ground. I managed to dig out an old lattice development kit at
work but someone's had the board away and just left the books.

Cypress do cheapish CPLD dev kits so perhaps that might be a better road
to follow - VHDL is the same on CPLDs and FPGAs, right? I might even
have a copy or Warp somewhere around.

Have a look at our range http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/boardproducts.html.
We may have some old rev Raggedstone1s coming onto Ebay in the next
few days with either a small or no reserve. We found some in a box
that didn't get sold.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.


On 2 Oct, 15:39, "Tom Lucas"
<news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote:
> Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development kit
> to practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a few
> output pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK
> based distributors would be preferred.

Tom Lucas wrote:
> Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development kit
> to practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a few
> output pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK
> based distributors would be preferred.

If the objective is to learn vhdl, all you need is

1. A simulator to verify and debug
the uut and testbench code and

2. Quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.

If the objective is to toggle a few output pins,
then buy a board and run the demos.

-- Mike Treseler

Mike Treseler wrote:
> 1. A simulator to verify and debug
> the uut and testbench code and

I've recently been learning VHDL myself and have
found GHDL to be quite useful and *free* with-out
all that dreadful IDE stuff. Combined with gtkwave
under Linux, it is a nice little system. ymmv.

<http://ghdl.free.fr/>

--
Michael N. Moran (h) 770 516 7918
5009 Old Field Ct. (c) 678 521 5460
Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144 http://mnmoran.org

"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains
and we never even know we have the key."
"Already Gone" by Jack Tempchin (recorded by The Eagles)

The Beatles were wrong: 1 & 1 & 1 is 1

On 2 Oct, 19:09, "Michael N. Moran" <mnmo...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Mike Treseler wrote:
> > 1. A simulator to verify and debug
> > the uut and testbench code and
>
> I've recently been learning VHDL myself and have
> found GHDL to be quite useful and *free* with-out
> all that dreadful IDE stuff. Combined with gtkwave
> under Linux, it is a nice little system. ymmv.
>
> <http://ghdl.free.fr/>
>
> --
> Michael N. Moran (h) 770 516 7918
> 5009 Old Field Ct. (c) 678 521 5460
> Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144 http://mnmoran.org
>
> "So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains
> and we never even know we have the key."
> "Already Gone" by Jack Tempchin (recorded by The Eagles)
>
> The Beatles were wrong: 1 & 1 & 1 is 1

Try this out for really cheap boards for beginners -

http://www.knjn.com/

also try this for some "fun projects" -

http://www.fpga4fun.com/

On 2 Pa , 18:54, Mike Treseler <mike_trese...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Tom Lucas wrote:
> > Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development kit
> > to practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a few
> > output pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK
> > based distributors would be preferred.
>
> If the objective is to learn vhdl, all you need is
>
> 1. A simulator to verify and debug
> the uut and testbench code and

Good solution is a Aldec Active-HDL 7.2 SE (student edition). Very
good simulation and verification tool. Nice schematic diagrams, easy
waveform manipulation. Very good choice (personal opinion) for
learning. Moreover, for this purposes it is free

"Tom Lucas" <news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote in
message news:[email protected]..
> Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development kit to
> practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a few output
> pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK based
> distributors would be preferred.
>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250169954376

No affiliation by the way.

Red

"John Adair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> Have a look at our range
> http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/boardproducts.html.
> We may have some old rev Raggedstone1s coming onto Ebay in the next
> few days with either a small or no reserve. We found some in a box
> that didn't get sold.
>
> John Adair
> Enterpoint Ltd.

I'll keep an eye out for those then.

> On 2 Oct, 15:39, "Tom Lucas"
> <news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote:
>> Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development
>> kit
>> to practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a
>> few
>> output pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK
>> based distributors would be preferred.
>
>

"ratemonotonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> On 2 Oct, 19:09, "Michael N. Moran" <mnmo...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> Mike Treseler wrote:
>> > 1. A simulator to verify and debug
>> > the uut and testbench code and
>>
>> I've recently been learning VHDL myself and have
>> found GHDL to be quite useful and *free* with-out
>> all that dreadful IDE stuff. Combined with gtkwave
>> under Linux, it is a nice little system. ymmv.
>>
>> <http://ghdl.free.fr/>
>>
>> --
>> Michael N. Moran (h) 770 516 7918
>> 5009 Old Field Ct. (c) 678 521 5460
>> Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144 http://mnmoran.org
>>
>> "So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains
>> and we never even know we have the key."
>> "Already Gone" by Jack Tempchin (recorded by The Eagles)
>>
>> The Beatles were wrong: 1 & 1 & 1 is 1
>
> Try this out for really cheap boards for beginners -
>
> http://www.knjn.com/

The Pluto 3 looks like just the thing. Are they available from a UK
supplier or do I need to look at getting one imported?

> also try this for some "fun projects" -
>
> http://www.fpga4fun.com/
>
>
>

On Oct 3, 9:54 am, "Tom Lucas"
<news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote:
> "ratemonotonic" <niladri1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected] ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Oct, 19:09, "Michael N. Moran" <mnmo...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> Mike Treseler wrote:
> >> > 1. A simulator to verify and debug
> >> > the uut and testbench code and
>
> >> I've recently been learning VHDL myself and have
> >> found GHDL to be quite useful and *free* with-out
> >> all that dreadful IDE stuff. Combined with gtkwave
> >> under Linux, it is a nice little system. ymmv.
>
> >> <http://ghdl.free.fr/>
>
> >> --
> >> Michael N. Moran (h) 770 516 7918
> >> 5009 Old Field Ct. (c) 678 521 5460
> >> Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144 http://mnmoran.org
>
> >> "So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains
> >> and we never even know we have the key."
> >> "Already Gone" by Jack Tempchin (recorded by The Eagles)
>
> >> The Beatles were wrong: 1 & 1 & 1 is 1
>
> > Try this out for really cheap boards for beginners -
>
> >http://www.knjn.com/
>
> The Pluto 3 looks like just the thing. Are they available from a UK
> supplier or do I need to look at getting one imported?
>
>
>
> > also try this for some "fun projects" -
>
> >http://www.fpga4fun.com/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Has to be shipped to UK.

see -

http://www.knjn.com/ShopInfo.html

"ratemonotonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
> On Oct 3, 9:54 am, "Tom Lucas"
> <news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote:
>> "ratemonotonic" <niladri1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected] ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 2 Oct, 19:09, "Michael N. Moran" <mnmo...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >> Mike Treseler wrote:
>> >> > 1. A simulator to verify and debug
>> >> > the uut and testbench code and
>>
>> >> I've recently been learning VHDL myself and have
>> >> found GHDL to be quite useful and *free* with-out
>> >> all that dreadful IDE stuff. Combined with gtkwave
>> >> under Linux, it is a nice little system. ymmv.
>>
>> >> <http://ghdl.free.fr/>
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael N. Moran (h) 770 516 7918
>> >> 5009 Old Field Ct. (c) 678 521 5460
>> >> Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144 http://mnmoran.org
>>
>> >> "So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains
>> >> and we never even know we have the key."
>> >> "Already Gone" by Jack Tempchin (recorded by The Eagles)
>>
>> >> The Beatles were wrong: 1 & 1 & 1 is 1
>>
>> > Try this out for really cheap boards for beginners -
>>
>> >http://www.knjn.com/
>>
>> The Pluto 3 looks like just the thing. Are they available from a UK
>> supplier or do I need to look at getting one imported?
>>
>>
>>
>> > also try this for some "fun projects" -
>>
>> >http://www.fpga4fun.com/- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Has to be shipped to UK.
>
> see -
>
> http://www.knjn.com/ShopInfo.html

$10 seems reasonable enough for shipping. Hopefully my credit card won't
sting me for using foreign currency.

On Oct 2, 12:54 pm, Mike Treseler <mike_trese...@comcast.net> wrote:

> If the objective is to learn vhdl, all you need is
>
> 1. A simulator to verify and debug
> the uut and testbench code and
>
> 2. Quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.

Yes, however, to someone who hasn't done it before, not taking the
effort through to hardware leaves out part of the feeling of the
experience.

> If the objective is to toggle a few output pins,
> then buy a board and run the demos.

It just all makes more sense when you see the lights blinking. After
you've done that, playing with the simulator is a very powerful, time
saving tool. But sometimes "wasting" a few hours with real hardware
is a precondition to being willing to work in simulation alone for
weeks.

IMHO, in terms of vendor sold/endorsed boards, Xilinx has the best
hobbyist or self-funded-training offerings via Digilent. The plain
spartan 3 kit is dated at this point but still easy to use, and
inexpensive, still $100 as far as I know, though if buying another I'd
get the biggest chip offered rather than the default.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> On Oct 2, 12:54 pm, Mike Treseler <mike_trese...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> If the objective is to learn vhdl, all you need is
>>
>> 1. A simulator to verify and debug
>> the uut and testbench code and
>>
>> 2. Quartus or ise to view the rtl schematic.
>
> Yes, however, to someone who hasn't done it before, not taking the
> effort through to hardware leaves out part of the feeling of the
> experience.

I'm inclined to agree. A project just isn't right without a good
electric shock or a soldering iron burn :-) I started out in hardware
design so I always prefer to play with bits and pieces where possible
because simulators are a little joyless.

>> If the objective is to toggle a few output pins,
>> then buy a board and run the demos.
>
> It just all makes more sense when you see the lights blinking. After
> you've done that, playing with the simulator is a very powerful, time
> saving tool. But sometimes "wasting" a few hours with real hardware
> is a precondition to being willing to work in simulation alone for
> weeks.
>
> IMHO, in terms of vendor sold/endorsed boards, Xilinx has the best
> hobbyist or self-funded-training offerings via Digilent. The plain
> spartan 3 kit is dated at this point but still easy to use, and
> inexpensive, still $100 as far as I know, though if buying another I'd
> get the biggest chip offered rather than the default.

I'll check those out, although the Probe 3 kit ratemonotonic suggested
also looks to be pretty good. I've heard that Xilinx are the Microsoft
of the FPGA world and behave similarly - I don't know if that is true
though.

Tom Lucas wrote:

> A project just isn't right without a good
> electric shock or a soldering iron burn :-) I started out in hardware
> design so I always prefer to play with bits and pieces where possible
> because simulators are a little joyless.

Simulation is good clean fun for me,
but if solder is your thing, have at it.

-- Mike Treseler

On Oct 3, 10:44 am, "Tom Lucas"
<news@REMOVE_tlcs_THIS_dot_TO_fsnet_REPLY_dot_co.u k> wrote:

> > Yes, however, to someone who hasn't done it before, not taking the
> > effort through to hardware leaves out part of the feeling of the
> > experience.
>
> I'm inclined to agree. A project just isn't right without a good
> electric shock or a soldering iron burn :-) I started out in hardware
> design so I always prefer to play with bits and pieces where possible
> because simulators are a little joyless.

Oh yes... the 75 cent radio control truck from the tag sale. Never
did get it going, but learned to solder and launched an EE career. The
burns healed fairly quickly...

> I've heard that Xilinx are the Microsoft
> of the FPGA world and behave similarly - I don't know if that is true
> though.

There might be an element to it, but the major difference is that
Xilinx has to contend with Altera as first-rank competition, in a way
that Microsoft at present doesn't. That keeps something of a lid on
things, though not as much as one might wish for.

You can control your degree of vendor lock in fairly easy - if you
don't use their unique library functions, and use only the free
download versions of the tools, and don't utilize any abuses of the
language that one tool or the other might permit, then you should
remain portable.

[email protected] wrote:

> You can control your degree of vendor lock in fairly easy - if you
> don't use their unique library functions, and use only the free
> download versions of the tools, and don't utilize any abuses of the
> language that one tool or the other might permit, then you should
> remain portable.

....and far less efficient than you could be if you designed to the
architecture. Now that doesn't necessarily mean instantiating
primitives, but it does play into how you architect your design so that
it makes best use of the target FPGA structure. Not doing this may lead
to a design that is far larger and slower than one that is specifically
designed to the architecture.

On Oct 3, 2:25 pm, Ray Andraka <r...@andraka.com> wrote:
> cs_post...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > You can control your degree of vendor lock in fairly easy - if you
> > don't use their unique library functions, and use only the free
> > download versions of the tools, and don't utilize any abuses of the
> > language that one tool or the other might permit, then you should
> > remain portable.
>
> ...and far less efficient than you could be if you designed to the
> architecture. Now that doesn't necessarily mean instantiating
> primitives, but it does play into how you architect your design so that
> it makes best use of the target FPGA structure. Not doing this may lead
> to a design that is far larger and slower than one that is specifically
> designed to the architecture.

I thought we were talking about exploration and initial learning, not
making products.

[email protected] wrote:

> You can control your degree of vendor lock in fairly easy - if you
> don't use their unique library functions, and use only the free
> download versions of the tools, and don't utilize any abuses of the
> language that one tool or the other might permit, then you should
> remain portable.

I mostly agree.
Every design has different constraints.
In my experience, reuse, straightforward
simulation and clean code has been more valuable
than maximum Fmax and minimum LUTs.
But I understand that there are others designing
on the edge that have to sacrifice some reuse
for performance or utilization.

-- Mike Treseler

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> On Oct 3, 2:25 pm, Ray Andraka <r...@andraka.com> wrote:
>> cs_post...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > You can control your degree of vendor lock in fairly easy - if you
>> > don't use their unique library functions, and use only the free
>> > download versions of the tools, and don't utilize any abuses of the
>> > language that one tool or the other might permit, then you should
>> > remain portable.
>>
>> ...and far less efficient than you could be if you designed to the
>> architecture. Now that doesn't necessarily mean instantiating
>> primitives, but it does play into how you architect your design so
>> that
>> it makes best use of the target FPGA structure. Not doing this may
>> lead
>> to a design that is far larger and slower than one that is
>> specifically
>> designed to the architecture.
>
> I thought we were talking about exploration and initial learning, not
> making products.

Well my eventual goal is to implement FPGA in my production systems so
it probably makes sense to keep that in mind as I begin my first forays.
My philosophy with the C I've written for the system is to keep it all
as portable as possible and perhaps have lost efficiency in doing so but
the products are low-volume and the cost of a bigger/faster part is far
less than the cost of rewriting platform specific code. I think I will
carry on that methodology with FPGAs and then look toward performance
gains with platform specific optimisations if my hands get really tied.

On Oct 3, 12:10 am, Jarek Rozanski <jarek.rozan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2 Pa , 18:54, Mike Treseler <mike_trese...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Tom Lucas wrote:
> > > Does anybody have any suggestions for a cheap and basic development kit
> > > to practice VHDL on? It doesn't need to do much more than toggle a few
> > > output pins and I'm happy to make up my own programming leads etc. UK
> > > based distributors would be preferred.
>
> > If the objective is to learn vhdl, all you need is
>
> > 1. A simulator to verify and debug
> > the uut and testbench code and
>
> Good solution is a Aldec Active-HDL 7.2 SE (student edition). Very
> good simulation and verification tool. Nice schematic diagrams, easy
> waveform manipulation. Very good choice (personal opinion) for
> learning. Moreover, for this purposes it is free

I'll second this recommendation. I've found Active HDL's free student
edition more than enough for educational purposes.

Eli