FPGA Central

Hi,

I am planning to learn using a dsp kit. My university has the followin
two kits from TI
1. TMS320VC5416-16 bit fixed point
2. TMS320C6713- 32 bit floating point

Since I am new to this field I m unable to choose between the two. Can yo
please suggest which one should I pick so that I can start learning them.

Thanks,
Vishwanath

vasindagi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am planning to learn using a dsp kit. My university has the following
> two kits from TI
> 1. TMS320VC5416-16 bit fixed point
> 2. TMS320C6713- 32 bit floating point
>
> Since I am new to this field I m unable to choose between the two. Can you
> please suggest which one should I pick so that I can start learning them.

Floating point simplifies calculations by attending to scaling detail
that the programmer needs to address with fixed point.

You may find that 16 bits forces you to double-precision for some
operations.

I would choose the 6713.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

>
> I would choose the 6713.
>
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

I would second that, if you are new and are learning start with the
6713. If you want to do fixed-point only, you can still do this on
the 6713. If you get stuck with the fixed-point on the 5416 you won't
be able to go to floating point except to use expensive software
emulation.

vasindagi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am planning to learn using a dsp kit. My university has the following
> two kits from TI
> 1. TMS320VC5416-16 bit fixed point
> 2. TMS320C6713- 32 bit floating point
>
> Since I am new to this field I m unable to choose between the two. Can you
> please suggest which one should I pick so that I can start learning them.

A young guy and young girl came to the rabbi to ask for his advice.

A girl:

"Tomorrow is my first night with my fiance. What kind of night dress
should I put on? Should it be a long dress, or a short dress, or an open
dress, or a closed dress, or whatever?"

A boy:

"I got some money. Will you please give me an advice what to do with it:
maybe, invest into something, or buy some real estate, or gold, or put
it in a bank?"

The rabbi:

"My dear children, I have one answer for both of you: whatever you do,
you will certainly be ****ed."



VLV

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:09:49 -0500, Jerry Avins <[email protected]> wrote:

>Floating point simplifies calculations by attending to scaling detail
>that the programmer needs to address with fixed point.
>
>You may find that 16 bits forces you to double-precision for some
>operations.

Yes, indeed, and what better time to learn about such things? :-)

>
>I would choose the 6713.

That's interesting, I would suggest the 5416 because of the exact
reasons you gave - it forces one to think in terms of fixed-point
processing, thus teaching fixed-point operations.

I maintain that it will be easier to use floatng point after
learning fixed point than the other way around.

It's like learning to drive a car with a manual transmission vs. an
automatic. The manual has a bigger learning curve, but once you've
learned it you can drive any car.

>
>Jerry

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:24:57 -0800 (PST), Chris Felton
<[email protected]> wrote:
>...
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>I would second that, if you are new and are learning start with the
>6713. If you want to do fixed-point only, you can still do this on
>the 6713. If you get stuck with the fixed-point on the 5416 you won't
>be able to go to floating point except to use expensive software
>emulation.

Here "expensive" refers to the time and code space taken up by
software emulation. While processors that do floating point in
hardware are of course much faster for FP operations, they're more
expensive in that other way, the actual cost of the DSP chip.

Like so much else in engineering, it's a tradeoff. In that sense, I
have to agree with Vladimir's response.

On Jan 16, 4:08*am, "vasindagi" <vish...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am planning to learn using a dsp kit. My university has the following
> two kits from TI
> 1. TMS320VC5416-16 bit fixed point
> 2. TMS320C6713- 32 bit floating point
>
> Since I am new to this field I m unable to choose between the two. Can you
> please suggest which one should I pick so that I can start learning them.
>
> Thanks,
> Vishwanath

The 5416 memory map can be a pain to understand, at least it was for
me. Take a look at the maps in the data sheet and see if it makes
sense. This may not matter for toy programs, but it needs to be
mastered for a real application.

John

Ben Bradley wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:09:49 -0500, Jerry Avins <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Floating point simplifies calculations by attending to scaling detail
>> that the programmer needs to address with fixed point.
>>
>> You may find that 16 bits forces you to double-precision for some
>> operations.
>
> Yes, indeed, and what better time to learn about such things? :-)
>
>> I would choose the 6713.
>
> That's interesting, I would suggest the 5416 because of the exact
> reasons you gave - it forces one to think in terms of fixed-point
> processing, thus teaching fixed-point operations.
>
> I maintain that it will be easier to use floatng point after
> learning fixed point than the other way around.

Sure. Floating point is always easier. (So is 32 bits vs. 16.)

> It's like learning to drive a car with a manual transmission vs. an
> automatic. The manual has a bigger learning curve, but once you've
> learned it you can drive any car.

I think everyone should be able to drive a manual transmission. There
are lots of advantages: better mileage, the ability to start the car
with a dead battery just by getting it to roll, and its ability to get
you home with a punk transmission. That doesn't mean that one's first
experience learning to drive should be on a manual. As far as I can see,
an automatic transmissions in passenger cars is useful primarily as a
learning tool.

...

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I will start off with the 6713. Once I
used to it I ll switch to the 5416.

>Ben Bradley wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:09:49 -0500, Jerry Avins <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Floating point simplifies calculations by attending to scaling detai

>>> that the programmer needs to address with fixed point.
>>>
>>> You may find that 16 bits forces you to double-precision for some
>>> operations.
>>
>> Yes, indeed, and what better time to learn about such things? :-)
>>
>>> I would choose the 6713.
>>
>> That's interesting, I would suggest the 5416 because of the exact
>> reasons you gave - it forces one to think in terms of fixed-point
>> processing, thus teaching fixed-point operations.
>>
>> I maintain that it will be easier to use floatng point after
>> learning fixed point than the other way around.
>
>Sure. Floating point is always easier. (So is 32 bits vs. 16.)
>
>> It's like learning to drive a car with a manual transmission vs. an
>> automatic. The manual has a bigger learning curve, but once you've
>> learned it you can drive any car.
>
>I think everyone should be able to drive a manual transmission. There
>are lots of advantages: better mileage, the ability to start the car
>with a dead battery just by getting it to roll, and its ability to get
>you home with a punk transmission. That doesn't mean that one's first
>experience learning to drive should be on a manual. As far as I can see

>an automatic transmissions in passenger cars is useful primarily as a
>learning tool.
>
> ...
>
>Jerry
>--
>Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
>ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï ¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿ ½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï ¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½
>

On Jan 18, 9:37*pm, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
> Ben Bradley wrote:
> > On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:09:49 -0500, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> >> Floating point simplifies calculations by attending to scaling detail
> >> that the programmer needs to address with fixed point.
>
> >> You may find that 16 bits forces you to double-precision for some
> >> operations.
>
> > * *Yes, indeed, and what better time to learn about such things? :-)
>
> >> I would choose the 6713.
>
> > * *That's interesting, I would suggest the 5416 because of the exact
> > reasons you gave - it forces one to think in terms of fixed-point
> > processing, thus teaching fixed-point operations.
>
> > * *I maintain that it will be easier to use floatng point after
> > learning fixed point than the other way around.
>
> Sure. Floating point is always easier. (So is 32 bits vs. 16.)
>
> > * *It's like learning to drive a car with a manual transmission vs.an
> > automatic. The manual has a bigger learning curve, but once you've
> > learned it you can drive any car.
>
> I think everyone should be able to drive a manual transmission. There
> are lots of advantages: better mileage, the ability to start the car
> with a dead battery just by getting it to roll, and its ability to get
> you home with a punk transmission. That doesn't mean that one's first
> experience learning to drive should be on a manual. As far as I can see,
> an automatic transmissions in passenger cars is useful primarily as a
> learning tool.
>
> * *...
>
> Jerry
> --
> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

My wife refuses to learn to drive my stick-shift car. She puts the
manual transmission in the category with hand-crank starter --
obsolete. I guess it's a guy thing.

John

John wrote:

...

> My wife refuses to learn to drive my stick-shift car. She puts the
> manual transmission in the category with hand-crank starter --
> obsolete. I guess it's a guy thing.

I managed to teach my wife to drive a stick on an Austin A-30. (She
wanted that car so much, she would have done anything.) Eventually, we
got a Plymouth Valiant, and she said that as I did most of the driving,
it should be a stick. Wrong: it became her car. (I got an old Ford to
get back and forth to work.) A couple of weeks after that arrangement
started, She and her visiting mother went to the market. Since her
father's car (the one she learned to drive on) was blocking her in the
driveway, she took that. As she was leaving, our one-and-half-year-old
son began agitating to go along. Too late! I plopped him into the
Valiant, where his safety seat was, and gave chase. My wife and I pulled
into adjacent parking places at the same time. She handed me her
father's keys and said, "Take this damned thing home. It shifts when
*it* wants to!"

Automatic transmissions are better now than in 1960, but not by enough.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯