FPGA Central

Hi Guys,

I ran across a university professor's webpage
today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:

"... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
responsible, and obedient."

The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.

"Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?

[-Rick-]

Rick Lyons schrieb:

> "Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?

Yes, the "Unsuccessful Ph.D. candidates"

Thomas

Rick Lyons wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I ran across a university professor's webpage
> today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
> candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
> He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:
>
> "... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
> responsible, and obedient."
>
> The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.
>
> "Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?
>
> [-Rick-]

Hi Rick,
Yeah, what a load of shit. Based on the connotations of that word, you
could add ass kisser, push over, and slave. You may get some
satisfaction from telling that brow beating **** to take his research
activity and shove it up his ass.
-Dr. T.

Go to his desk and tell the ass he must be an "Obedient" Ph.D.
employment offering to pay you 150K per year, plus signing bonuses,
medical care, 401K matching, dental, vision, disability care, life
insurance, file intellectual patents on your behalf and in your name,
with copyright entitlements, and future financial advantanges resulting
from your own intellectual properties and works.
-Dr. T.
p.s. What a ****ing ass.

Rick Lyons wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I ran across a university professor's webpage
> today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
> candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
> He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:
>
> "... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
> responsible, and obedient."
>
> The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.

It's something of a contradiction in terms, that add.

> "Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?

Yes, there is. As somebody mentioned, the "non-obedient"
PhD candidates may not succeed in their pursue of the
degree, but those guys become the pest PhDs, if they ever
get the chance.

Rune

On 1 Mar 2005 06:11:32 -0800, "Herb T" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Rick Lyons wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I ran across a university professor's webpage
>> today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
>> candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
>> He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:
>>
>> "... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
>> responsible, and obedient."
>>
>> The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.
>>
>> "Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?
>>
>> [-Rick-]
>
>Hi Rick,
>Yeah, what a load of shit. Based on the connotations of that word, you
>could add ass kisser, push over, and slave. You may get some
>satisfaction from telling that brow beating **** to take his research
>activity and shove it up his ass.
>-Dr. T.

Whew Dr. T!

I didn't mean to wind your spring so tight!

I'll bet you have a few horror stories to tell.

[-Rick-]
Who's never been a Ph.D candidate.

in article [email protected] om, Herb T at
[email protected] wrote on 03/01/2005 09:11:

> Rick Lyons wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I ran across a university professor's webpage
>> today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
>> candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
>> He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:
>>
>> "... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
>> responsible, and obedient."
>>
>> The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.
>>
>> "Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?
>>
>> [-Rick-]
>
> Hi Rick,
> Yeah, what a load of shit. Based on the connotations of that word, you
> could add ass kisser, push over, and slave. You may get some
> satisfaction from telling that brow beating **** to take his research
> activity and shove it up his ass.

http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/ekkma/

it seems not unexpected. the guy's in Singapore which is a very oppressive,
but highly developed culture. i would be arrested, just for the length of
my hair. (dunno if they would cane me or not.)

--

r b-j [email protected]

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

"Rick Lyons" <r.lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I ran across a university professor's webpage
> today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
> candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
> He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:
>
> "... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
> responsible, and obedient."
>
> The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.
>
> "Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?
>
> [-Rick-]

Any chance the professor is/was from the Indian sub-continent?
Being 'obedient' is one of the very many qualities that teachers look for in
students (in India - and I suspect this might extend to some of the other
Asian countries as well). Parents would be very proud if a teacher told them
that their ward was very obedient since basically translated to the fact
that the student has some respect for his teacher. So my guess is that this
professor hasn't quite lost his roots (not a bad thing) and all he is really
looking for is some respect.

Cheers
Bhaskar

in article [email protected], Bhaskar Thiagarajan at
[email protected] wrote on 03/01/2005 12:30:

> "Rick Lyons" <r.lyons@_BOGUS_ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]..
>>
>> I ran across a university professor's webpage
>> today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
>> candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
>> He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:
>>
>> "... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
>> responsible, and obedient."
>>
>> The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.
>>
>> "Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?
>
> Any chance the professor is/was from the Indian sub-continent?

close, but he's from the SE Asian sub-continent.

http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/ekkma/

however, not having visited there, i don't consider Singapore to be
representative of all of SE Asia. it seems that Singapore, though very
prosperous, is also quite authoritarian and somewhat oppressive.

> Being 'obedient' is one of the very many qualities that teachers look for in
> students (in India - and I suspect this might extend to some of the other
> Asian countries as well). Parents would be very proud if a teacher told them
> that their ward was very obedient since basically translated to the fact
> that the student has some respect for his teacher. So my guess is that this
> professor hasn't quite lost his roots (not a bad thing) and all he is really
> looking for is some respect.

i agree with the other sentiment that what this prof wants, is what i have
seen in U.S. grad schools mostly with foreign profs, is a little slave that
will do all of the hard work, be the primary author of the papers generated,
but allow the prof to co-author. (i know of one EECS prof at Northwestern,
where i was a failed PhD candidate, that had a whole "harem" of Chinese PhD
students and he insisted on being the "primary" author, though he didn't do
the work nor wrote the papers - it was very embarrassing once when he had to
substitute for one of his PhD students at an IEEE conference and present
their research - he couldn't answer a single question about it.)

the real shame is that these PhD students eventually get their PhDs and then
eventually tenure and they feel entitled to do the same to the poor slugs
that the get to work for them. it's a racket, similar to MD Residents in
the hospitals, where one generation feels entitled to piss on the next,
because it was done to them when they were first-year residents. (it's
those guys who've been awake for 48 hours and are cutting on you in the
Emergency Room.) a damn shame.

--

r b-j [email protected]

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

robert bristow-johnson wrote:

...
> a damn shame.

"Shut up and keep swimming". It's supposed to make a man out of you,
just like in West Point.
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

in article [email protected], Jerry Avins at [email protected] wrote
on 03/01/2005 15:41:

> robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>
> ...
>> a damn shame.
>
> "Shut up and keep swimming". It's supposed to make a man out of you,
> just like in West Point.

dunno how serious you are about that Jerry, because that *is* the
justification used for this practice of apprenticeship.

i don't wanna be the one under the knife of a 1st year resident who they are
"making a man out of", nor do i want to deal with the fully licensed MD that
he will become if he accepts those values himself.

a similar argument can be made for PhD grad students: the kind of
scholarship that the are doing under the thumb of the prof that is getting
the funding, the kind of values they are learning in that experience (if
they're "obedient"), and the kind of prof they will someday become.

--

r b-j [email protected]

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

Jerry Avins wrote:
> robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> a damn shame.
>
>
> "Shut up and keep swimming". It's supposed to make a man out of you,
> just like in West Point.


If the principles are the same, I guess that I would have derived the
same benefit from a Dominatrix as I did from the Airborne

robert bristow-johnson wrote:

...

> dunno how serious you are about that Jerry, because that *is* the
> justification used for this practice of apprenticeship.

I thought you had figured out that I don't hold with that man-making
crap. And it you don't stop running around in circles, I'll nail your
other foot to the floor.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Rune Allnor wrote:

>Rick Lyons wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Guys,
>>
>> I ran across a university professor's webpage
>>today, where the prof said he was looking for Ph.D
>>candidates to join him in his DSP reasearch activities.
>>He said he was looking for Ph.D students who are:
>>
>> "... excellent, self-motivated, independent,
>> responsible, and obedient."
>>
>>The word "obedient" tickled the heck out of me.
>>
>>
>
>It's something of a contradiction in terms, that add.
>
>
>
>>"Obedient Ph.D candidates"! - is there any other kind?
>>
>>
>
>Yes, there is. As somebody mentioned, the "non-obedient"
>PhD candidates may not succeed in their pursue of the
>degree, but those guys become the pest PhDs, if they ever
>get the chance.
>
>
Maybe some PhD students just misunderstand the goals. The research topic
for all PhD's is basically the same - how to survive in the academic
world. :-)

I've had two managers over the years who were academics who left the
academic world because they couldn't stand all the politics, and lack of
genuine scholarly pursuit. They joined industry, like that might be a
cure for the politics problem. Even the smartest people can be deeply naive.

Regards,
Steve

Bhaskar, I beg to differ - in the Indian subcontinent, "obedient"
translates into exactly what it means - kiss your prof's ass and do
what he asks you to do, don't you dare question his infinite wisdom.

I was lucky enough to do my Masters (a few years ago) in a good place
with a decent prof, but in the same place I saw enough horror stories
unfold that I decided I wasn't going to do a Ph.D for quite some time
to come.

There was this guy who got jacked by his Prof for reading Calvin &
Hobbes online in the lab. The same Prof jacked another student because
he didn't appreciate his having a girlfriend - he said it was bad for
his studies.

Well, I do agree that you're bound to have good profs and bad profs
wherever you go, but this concept of "obedience" is unique to the
Indian subcontinent, and it *absolutely needs to go* if we're ever
going to progress at all. Kids at school are taught not to ask
questions and just accept what their teacher says - I don't know for
sure if this is the case today, I passed out of high school several
years ago, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it were so.

Thankfully the industry here doesn't have the same kind of demand for
"obedience" but it shows up in other ways...

The crap is universal, in industry as well as in academia - it's just
that some places stink more than the others.

Steve,

The problem is, as Henry Kissenger said: the politics in Academia are
so dirty is because the stakes are so low.

Politics happen whenever there are more than two people involved in any
pursuit. It's whether the pursuit can (sometimes) overcome the
policitcs that matters.

Ciao,

Peter K.

in article [email protected] com, Peter K.
at [email protected] wrote on 03/01/2005 22:13:

> Politics happen whenever there are more than two people involved in any
> pursuit.

that's the competitive part. politics also happen in purely "cooperative"
pursuits when there are two or more disagreeing as to how and where to take
such a pursuit.

politiking happens in families and churches and usenet newsgroups. some
politics are good. it's good guys vs. other good guys. unfortunately that
kinda is the minority.

it was Vermont town meeting tonight and i had a nasty run-in with one of the
"inspector of election" in my ward. she shut down the ward 3 or 4 minutes
early. i told her when she announced it that it was early. she basically
said her watch was as good as mine (it might have been but it was still set
4 minutes ahead). i thought it would be academic until 6:58 when two
different families or groups of folks presented themselves and were denied
their right to vote. i found out that, at least in this case, it didn't
matter who was right (whos watch had more accurate time), but who's the
boss.

BTW, we voted a non-binding referendum to bring our national guard home.
maybe we'll secede and go to Canada.

--

r b-j [email protected]

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

Jerry Avins wrote:
> robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>
> ...
> > a damn shame.
>
> "Shut up and keep swimming". It's supposed to make a man out of you,
> just like in West Point.

There is a limit to everything. There *are* places where obedience
and initiation rites are in place, boot camp being one of them.

Research and development, or even engineering, is not. Granted,
an employee of a company should not discuss technical and economical
details with outsiders, and he should work towards the stated
project/company goals and not go his own ways.

If an engineer gets involved in a project that is sheer fraud, or
that does severe harm to the company or customer, he should do
something about it. It could be as "simple" as shutting up and
leaving. Or he could warn his own management, or even the client,
about what the consequences will be. Not to be recommended, though,
unless one is absolutely certain that's the way to go.

There are plenty of examples around, where companies that ought
to have known better got in trouble because they did not act
to ensure product safety when being made aware of a problem.
Sure, the staff were "obedient", but the company got down the
drains.

To get back to the marine example above, the basic rule when
in the wild, is not to swim unless you have absolutely no
alternative. If you are at sea, say, in the floating debris of
a sunken ship, stay with the debris. SAR teams will come, and
they will find the debris first. They will first search the
area in the immediate vicinity for survivors.

If you are in the mountains around here, chances are that the
river or lake you are about to cross is too cold for your benefit,
so don't get in if you can in any way avoid it. I guess there
would be other hazards to swimming in more temperate/tropical
regions.

"Being a man" is, in my book, about recognizing when the options
have run out and you *have* to swim, and being capable of carrying
it through. It's not about swimming wherever you go.

Rune

robert bristow-johnson wrote:

] BTW, we voted a non-binding referendum to bring our national
] guard home. maybe we'll secede and go to Canada.

But that'll make one fewer Blue State!!!!

;-)

Ciao,

Peter K.

Rune Allnor wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:

...

>>"Shut up and keep swimming". ...

[notable wisdom snipped]

Perhaps you don't know the joke, Attuned tot East Coast USA beaches.

But mommy! I don't want to go to Europe.
Shut up and keep swimming.

It's one of a class called "sick jokes". Later, I quoted another in full.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

in article [email protected] om, Peter K. at
[email protected] wrote on 03/02/2005 08:57:

> robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>
> ] BTW, we voted a non-binding referendum to bring our national
> ] guard home. maybe we'll secede and go to Canada.
>
> But that'll make one fewer Blue State!!!!
>
> ;-)

it's just so sickening. i'm tempted to say, "if you can't beat 'em, get the
**** outa there."



We're all Republicans now
We've all come around somehow
The liquor is free
In the G.O.P.
We're all Republicans now
We are for hard work and thrift
Though of course we don't mind a gift
We stand for family and country and God,
Don't mess with us or we'll declare a jihad
If you don't like it, Canada is that way
Don't complain to the press, they've got nothing to say
They're Republicans
They're all Republicans
We're all Republicans now.


(c) © Garrison Keillor 2003


http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/p...ublicans.shtml

--

r b-j [email protected]

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

"Karthik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
> Bhaskar, I beg to differ - in the Indian subcontinent, "obedient"
> translates into exactly what it means - kiss your prof's ass and do
> what he asks you to do, don't you dare question his infinite wisdom.

I understand your point (and don't disagree). What I was trying to get
across was a possible reason as to why 'obedience' was a quality that a
professor might want in a student if he/she belongs to the Indian
subcontinent. Put another way, while Rick found it funny, it sounded pretty
normal once I found out that this guy was from Singapore.

Cheers
Bhaskar

> I was lucky enough to do my Masters (a few years ago) in a good place
> with a decent prof, but in the same place I saw enough horror stories
> unfold that I decided I wasn't going to do a Ph.D for quite some time
> to come.
>
> There was this guy who got jacked by his Prof for reading Calvin &
> Hobbes online in the lab. The same Prof jacked another student because
> he didn't appreciate his having a girlfriend - he said it was bad for
> his studies.
>
> Well, I do agree that you're bound to have good profs and bad profs
> wherever you go, but this concept of "obedience" is unique to the
> Indian subcontinent, and it *absolutely needs to go* if we're ever
> going to progress at all. Kids at school are taught not to ask
> questions and just accept what their teacher says - I don't know for
> sure if this is the case today, I passed out of high school several
> years ago, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it were so.
>
> Thankfully the industry here doesn't have the same kind of demand for
> "obedience" but it shows up in other ways...
>
> The crap is universal, in industry as well as in academia - it's just
> that some places stink more than the others.
>

robert bristow-johnson wrote:

> in article [email protected] om, Peter K. at
> [email protected] wrote on 03/02/2005 08:57:
>
>
>>robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>>
>>] BTW, we voted a non-binding referendum to bring our national
>>] guard home. maybe we'll secede and go to Canada.
>>
>>But that'll make one fewer Blue State!!!!
>>
>>;-)
>
>
> it's just so sickening. i'm tempted to say, "if you can't beat 'em, get the
> **** outa there."
>
>

I'm just waiting to see if we can get 10 more Republican senators.
It would probably be the best thing that has happened in years.

Signed ( as he ducks
a Goldwater Republican