FPGA Central

moshe malk wrote:

> The UN? Where have you bee living the last 50 years?
> What conflict did the UN ever manage well? When good did the UN ever
> do?
> Let's face it, the UN is an incompetant, corrupt, anti-American
> organization. That would be a grave mistake to give them control over
> the aftermath. Maybe going into Iraq was not a good idea, but once we
> are in there we have to stay so as not to invite worst tests of our
> resolve in the future.


Actually, the UN has had successes. East Timor is a recent one. For
more on this, there was a lengthy article in last Sunday's NT Times
Magazine on this very subject. The article (titled "Making Sense of the
Mission") discusses how difficult these tasks are. The URL is...

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/magazine/11PEACE.html>

(registration may be required)

Also in the news today is that the US has decided to adopt the United
Nation's plan for IRAQ. I wonder why they did that?

<http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...nWGU3VAI&refer
=uk>

<http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentSe...toryFT/FullSto
ry&c=StoryFT&cid=1079420404700>


Cheers,

Ken Prager

--
Remove _me_ for e-mail address

"Ken Prager" <prager_me_@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:1080emc6etsl977@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Actually, the UN has had successes. East Timor is a recent one. For
> more on this, there was a lengthy article in last Sunday's NT Times
> Magazine on this very subject. The article (titled "Making Sense of the
> Mission") discusses how difficult these tasks are. The URL is...
>

This brings to mind a friend (in Australia) who told me that after Australia
sent troops to East Timor to quell the troubles there that Australia
presented all of its taxpayers whose income exceeded a threshold (IIRC it
was 50000 dollars Aus.) a bill to pay for the military action.

Clay

"Clay S. Turner" <CSTurner@WSE.Biz> writes:

> This brings to mind a friend (in Australia) who told me that after Australia
> sent troops to East Timor to quell the troubles there that Australia
> presented all of its taxpayers whose income exceeded a threshold (IIRC it
> was 50000 dollars Aus.) a bill to pay for the military action.

That sounds like a cross between two quite separate stories.

Sure, Australia was one of the main peace-keeping forces in East
Timor, but this was not paid for using an extra tax.

Several gummint-backed financial groups collapsed (particularly in
Victoria and South Australia) and these had to be bailed out. The
state gummints introduced specific levies to pay for these.

Ciao,

Peter K.

--
Peter J. Kootsookos

"I will ignore all ideas for new works [..], the invention of which
has reached its limits and for whose improvement I see no further
hope."

- Julius Frontinus, c. AD 84

>> The UN? Where have you bee living the last 50 years?
>> What conflict did the UN ever manage well? When good did the UN ever
>> do?
>> Let's face it, the UN is an incompetant, corrupt, anti-American
>> organization.

IMHO, we have a layering problem.

(1) We elect people to our gummints who barely do what we want, partly
because a single vote is a very inarticulate (blunt) instrument with which
to specify our policy desires, and they can usually do something nice just
before the next election to take our collective mind off previous
disappointments.

(2) They then appoint UN reps who do what the gummint wants. What we might
want of the UN does not figure here, it has very little to do with us. It
is an instrument of and for the use of gummints, not of us.

(3) The UN then, is a body hampered by the agendas of the originating
gummints, and by the delegates, who are manouvering to suit their personal
career ambitions (usually) within the guidelines given to them. It is also
impeded by restraints of funding, and rules which were set by gummints in
the 1950's to suit the politics of that time.

(4) The situation will be slow to change for the better, as very few
gummints will vote for anything which may in the future render them
susceptible to those same laws. i.e any resolution permitting UN
intervention in a tyranny, or making their soldiers subject to war crimes
trials. If you want to improve the UN, talk to your own government. The
UN is not controlled by the UN.

Summarised, the UN is insulated from democracy by a couple of layers of
unaccountability. Is it any wonder that any of the people of good will who
might remain within the UN can do little?

Jim Adamthwaite.

I read this the other day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3651837.stm
Maybe there was an ulterior motive in 'liberating' East Timor? Just like
Iraq really.
cheers, Syms.

"Peter J. Kootsookos" <p.kootsookos@remove.ieee.org> wrote in message
news:s68pta2x59v.fsf@mango.itee.uq.edu.au...
> "Clay S. Turner" <CSTurner@WSE.Biz> writes:
>
> > This brings to mind a friend (in Australia) who told me that after
Australia
> > sent troops to East Timor to quell the troubles there that Australia
> > presented all of its taxpayers whose income exceeded a threshold (IIRC
it
> > was 50000 dollars Aus.) a bill to pay for the military action.
>
> That sounds like a cross between two quite separate stories.
>
> Sure, Australia was one of the main peace-keeping forces in East
> Timor, but this was not paid for using an extra tax.
>
> Several gummint-backed financial groups collapsed (particularly in
> Victoria and South Australia) and these had to be bailed out. The
> state gummints introduced specific levies to pay for these.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Peter K.
>
> --
> Peter J. Kootsookos
>
> "I will ignore all ideas for new works [..], the invention of which
> has reached its limits and for whose improvement I see no further
> hope."
>
> - Julius Frontinus, c. AD 84

Symon wrote:

> I read this the other day.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3651837.stm
> Maybe there was an ulterior motive in 'liberating' East Timor? Just like
> Iraq really.
> cheers, Syms.

...

The underwater geology there makes this a more complex issue than it
could be. East Timor and Australia have very different histories as land
masses. Australia claims the right to its continental shelf as part of
the continent, which geologically it is. East Timor claims, with
historical justification, that borders end at the shore. I'm glad I
needn't decide the issue, and I won't discuss it further here.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

"Symon" <symon_brewer@hotmail.com> writes:

> I read this the other day.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3651837.stm
> Maybe there was an ulterior motive in 'liberating' East Timor? Just like
> Iraq really.
> cheers, Syms.

Yes, that's a really throny one. At least there appears to be
negotiations happening rather than an invasion.

It's all a real mess, and I don't know enough of the history and the
issues involved to say what's what.

Ciao,

Peter K

--
Peter J. Kootsookos

"I will ignore all ideas for new works [..], the invention of which
has reached its limits and for whose improvement I see no further
hope."

- Julius Frontinus, c. AD 84