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Green Xenon [Radium]
05-16-2008, 05:56 AM
Hi:

QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
with more than two phases?


Thanks,

Radium

Eric Jacobsen
05-16-2008, 06:34 AM
On Thu, 15 May 2008 21:56:05 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi:
>
>QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
>each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
>more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
>the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
>with more than two phases?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Radium


You need to be a little more clear about what you mean. QAM
constellations have way more than two phases in the possible symbols.
QPSK has four.


Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php

it_dunce
05-16-2008, 01:02 PM
On May 16, 12:56 pm, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi:
>
> QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
> each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
> more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
> the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
> with more than two phases?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Radium

yea.. if you are talking abt channel coding methods for binary erasure
channel such as Raptor code, you will encounter such kind of
constellation diagram...

Steve Underwood
05-16-2008, 01:06 PM
Eric Jacobsen wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 21:56:05 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
>> each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
>> more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
>> the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
>> with more than two phases?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Radium
>
>
> You need to be a little more clear about what you mean. QAM
> constellations have way more than two phases in the possible symbols.
> QPSK has four.

QPSK (or 8-PSK or more) has only one amplitude, unless you count
"switched off" as a valid amplitude. He asked for something with 2
amplitudes.

Steve

05-16-2008, 02:45 PM
On May 16, 12:56 am, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi:
>
> QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
> each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
> more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
> the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
> with more than two phases?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Radium

16-QAM.

Jason

maury
05-16-2008, 03:42 PM
On May 16, 12:34*am, Eric Jacobsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 21:56:05 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Hi:
>
> >QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
> >each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
> >more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
> >the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
> >with more than two phases?
>
> >Thanks,
>
> >Radium
>
> You need to be a little more clear about what you mean. * QAM
> constellations have way more than two phases in the possible symbols.
> QPSK has four.
>
> Eric Jacobsen
> Minister of Algorithms
> Abineau Communicationshttp://www.ericjacobsen.org
>
> Blog:http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php

I think the OP used the worng term which led to a misunderstanding of
the question. QAM uses two orthogonal bases with varying amplitudes
to construct the constelation. What if three orthogonal bases are
used? How about n bases? As an analogy, think of the i, j unit
vectors defining a plane. You can make any combination of amplitude
and angles on the defined plane, even though there only two bases.
This is QAM. Now think of i, j, and k forming a 3-D hyperplane.
Further, let the set of all vectors in this hyperplane be a
combination of the three bases with amplitudes +1 and -1. Is there
such an equivalent in data transmission? I believe this is the
question being asked.

Maurice Givens

emeb
05-16-2008, 08:08 PM
Let's do a bit of careful deconstruction on the OP:

> QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
> each and amplitude-modulates them.

I assume from this that you're referring to I/Q complex baseband
modulation. In this you're correct - the phases are fixed at 90deg and
by varying amplitudes we can create any 2-D vector. Different types/
orders of QAM will have different sets of discrete amplitudes.

> QAM only has two phases but can have
> more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
> the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
> with more than two phases?

Interesting idea. It seems that mathematically there are an infinite
number of ways to generate 2-D vectors with various combinations of
amplitude & phase. The end results are all the same though, and using
quadrature carriers (that are orthogonal and hence give maximum
coverage of a space with minimum required amplitude variation of the I/
Q carriers) is simplest.

I suppose if you were trying to avoid a patent that this might be one
way to do it though.

Eric

Darrell
05-16-2008, 08:33 PM
On May 16, 12:56*am, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Is there any modulation scheme that does
> the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
> with more than two phases?

Star QAM.

Darrell

function y = starqam16(d, r, mode)
%
%STARQAM16 Quadrature Amplitude Modulation with 16 point star shaped
% constellation as opposed to traditional square shaped. A
% star shaped constellation is essentially a set of
concentric
% PSK rings. For a 16 symbol constellation, there are two
% PSK rings with 8 symbols per ring.
%
% The primary benfit of a star constellation versus a square
% constellation is that, with differential encoding, there
is
% no need for pilot assistance in a faded envrionment. The
% least significant bit selects the outer (1) or inner ring
(0),
% and a gray coding scheme is used on each ring. The exact
% mapping is given by:
%
% 000 - 0 degree phase shift
% 100 - 45 degree phase shift
% 101 - 90 degree phase shift
% 111 - 135 degree phase shift
% 110 - 180 degree phase shift
% 010 - 225 degree phase shift
% 011 - 270 degree phase shift
% 001 - 315 degree phase shift
%
% y = starqam16(d, r, mode)
%
% r and mode are optional arguements. r specifies the
% inner/outer ring ratio and defaults to 1.8. mode
specifies
% either 'modulation' or 'demodulation.' By default, the
% function checks to see if the input matrix is real or
% imaginary and chooses mode = 'modulate' or mode =
% 'demodulate', respectively.
%

j = sqrt(-1);

% Parse parameters.

if (nargin < 1)
error('\nNot enough input arguments!\n');
end

if (nargin == 1)
r = 1.8;
if isreal(d)
mode = 'modulate';
else
mode = 'demodulate';
end
end

if (nargin == 2)
if isreal(d)
mode = 'modulate';
else
mode = 'demodulate';
end
end

if (nargin > 3)
error('\nToo many input arguments!\n');
end

if (nargout > 1)
error('\nToo many output arguments!\n');
end

row(d);

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Demodulate %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

if (strcmp(mode,'demodulate') == 1)

% Calculate phase difference with hard decision slicing

phi = angle(d) - cat(2, 0, angle(d(1:length(d)-1)));
phi(find(phi<0)) = 2*pi + phi(find(phi<0));
sliced_phi = mod(quant(phi,pi/4), 2*pi);

p = [ 0 % 000 - 0 degree phase shift
4 % 001 - 315 degree phase shift
5 % 010 - 225 degree phase shift
7 % 011 - 270 degree phase shift
6 % 100 - 45 degree phase shift
2 % 101 - 90 degree phase shift
3 % 110 - 180 degree phase shift
1 ]; % 111 - 135 degree phase shift

y = 2*p((4/pi)*sliced_phi + 1);

% Calculate magnitude difference with hard decision slicing

A = abs(d) - cat(2, 1, abs(d(1:length(d)-1)));
y(find(abs(A)>(r-1)/2)) = y(find(abs(A)>(r-1)/2)) + 1;

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Modulate %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

elseif (strcmp(mode,'modulate') == 1)

p = [ 0*pi/4 % 000 - 0 degree phase shift
7*pi/4 % 001 - 315 degree phase shift
5*pi/4 % 010 - 225 degree phase shift
6*pi/4 % 011 - 270 degree phase shift
1*pi/4 % 100 - 45 degree phase shift
2*pi/4 % 101 - 90 degree phase shift
4*pi/4 % 110 - 180 degree phase shift
3*pi/4 ]; % 111 - 135 degree phase shift

input_bits = dec2bin(d, 4);
radius = (r-1)*mod(cumsum(bin2dec(input_bits(:,4))),2) + 1;
phase = mod(cumsum(p(1+bin2dec(input_bits(:,1:3)))),2*pi);

y = radius .* exp(j*phase);

else

error(sprintf('\nUnsupported mode %s\n', mode));

end

Randy Yates
05-16-2008, 09:07 PM
maury <[email protected]> writes:

> On May 16, 12:34*am, Eric Jacobsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 21:56:05 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Hi:
>>
>> >QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
>> >each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
>> >more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
>> >the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
>> >with more than two phases?
>>
>> >Thanks,
>>
>> >Radium
>>
>> You need to be a little more clear about what you mean. * QAM
>> constellations have way more than two phases in the possible symbols.
>> QPSK has four.
>>
>> Eric Jacobsen
>> Minister of Algorithms
>> Abineau Communicationshttp://www.ericjacobsen.org
>>
>> Blog:http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php
>
> I think the OP used the worng term which led to a misunderstanding of
> the question. QAM uses two orthogonal bases with varying amplitudes
> to construct the constelation. What if three orthogonal bases are
> used? How about n bases? As an analogy, think of the i, j unit
> vectors defining a plane. You can make any combination of amplitude
> and angles on the defined plane, even though there only two bases.
> This is QAM. Now think of i, j, and k forming a 3-D hyperplane.
> Further, let the set of all vectors in this hyperplane be a
> combination of the three bases with amplitudes +1 and -1. Is there
> such an equivalent in data transmission? I believe this is the
> question being asked.

I think you're right, Maury.

The answer is that, for simple amplitude modulation, the dimension of
the vector space for this type of modulation is two - that is
essentially what you've already stated. The reason that this is the case
is that basis vectors in this space are sinusoids, and there can only be
a maximum of two linearly independent vectors (at the same frequency) of
this type.
--
% Randy Yates % "My Shangri-la has gone away, fading like
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % the Beatles on 'Hey Jude'"
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% <[email protected]> % 'Shangri-La', *A New World Record*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

Eric Jacobsen
05-16-2008, 09:49 PM
On Fri, 16 May 2008 07:42:41 -0700 (PDT), maury <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On May 16, 12:34*am, Eric Jacobsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 21:56:05 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Hi:
>>
>> >QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
>> >each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
>> >more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
>> >the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
>> >with more than two phases?
>>
>> >Thanks,
>>
>> >Radium
>>
>> You need to be a little more clear about what you mean. * QAM
>> constellations have way more than two phases in the possible symbols.
>> QPSK has four.
>>
>> Eric Jacobsen
>> Minister of Algorithms
>> Abineau Communicationshttp://www.ericjacobsen.org
>>
>> Blog:http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php
>
>I think the OP used the worng term which led to a misunderstanding of
>the question. QAM uses two orthogonal bases with varying amplitudes
>to construct the constelation. What if three orthogonal bases are
>used? How about n bases? As an analogy, think of the i, j unit
>vectors defining a plane. You can make any combination of amplitude
>and angles on the defined plane, even though there only two bases.
>This is QAM. Now think of i, j, and k forming a 3-D hyperplane.
>Further, let the set of all vectors in this hyperplane be a
>combination of the three bases with amplitudes +1 and -1. Is there
>such an equivalent in data transmission? I believe this is the
>question being asked.
>
>Maurice Givens

Hi, Maurice. Good to see you around again (or maybe I've just not
been paying attention).

I think you may be right, but I wasn't willing to assume. Rather
than answer a question that wasn't asked, I was hoping to get the OP
to clarify.

FWIW, that wouldn't be a new idea. Somebody was trying to sell that
around the comm circuit about twelve years ago, about the same time
people were trying to sell the original variants of VPSK. I've since
come to call these sorts of things "techno-scams", and it's always
disappointing to me to see people pushing things like that, and even
more disappointing to me to see other people give them money.

The idea that was being sold at the time was to take a quadrature
signal and use it as the input to each leg of the next quadrature
signal, making a 4-D hyperplane, as you've described it. So, I1 +
jQ1 makes up IT, and I2 + jQ2 makes up QT, so the transmitted signal
is then IT + jQT.

Conceptually you can go back and add as many dimensions as you want,
since one can expand the 'tree' as far as you want. The selling
point was that one could increase the modulation density, or the
bps/Hz, as much as one wanted.

Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php

glen herrmannsfeldt
05-16-2008, 10:23 PM
Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:

> QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
> each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
> more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
> the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
> with more than two phases?

Usually each has a diagram with phase and amplitude indicated
by a point for each allowed combination. Consider it as
a phase magnitude plot in complex space.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.blondertongue.com/QAM-Transmodulator/QAM_Anal4.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.blondertongue.com/QAM-Transmodulator/QAM_defined.php&h=367&w=371&sz=40&tbnid=yPNp9zooSk4J:&tbnh=121&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dconstellation%2Bdiagram&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram

For efficient coding the points should have approximately equal
space between them, which would not be true for a large
number of phases and only two amplitudes. It isn't too far
off for up to about six or eight, though.

Note that it isn't required that the allowed values for
I and Q be independent. If they are, the result is a
square array with a square outline, but many other
combinations are possible. Limiting the amplitude
removes the corner points for a square array with a
circular outline.

-- glen

glen herrmannsfeldt
05-16-2008, 10:32 PM
emeb wrote:

> Let's do a bit of careful deconstruction on the OP:

>>QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
>>each and amplitude-modulates them.

> I assume from this that you're referring to I/Q complex baseband
> modulation. In this you're correct - the phases are fixed at 90deg and
> by varying amplitudes we can create any 2-D vector. Different types/
> orders of QAM will have different sets of discrete amplitudes.

The circular 8QAM can be described as either one amplitude
and eight phases, or in I/Q space as quadrature signals each
with five amplitudes (-1, -sqrt(1/2), 0, sqrt(1/2), 1)
but only eight combinations allowed.

I could also see 12 points with two amplitudes and six phases each.

>>QAM only has two phases but can have
>>more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
>>the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
>>with more than two phases?

> Interesting idea. It seems that mathematically there are an infinite
> number of ways to generate 2-D vectors with various combinations of
> amplitude & phase. The end results are all the same though, and using
> quadrature carriers (that are orthogonal and hence give maximum
> coverage of a space with minimum required amplitude variation of the I/
> Q carriers) is simplest.

> I suppose if you were trying to avoid a patent that this might be one
> way to do it though.

For generating and decoding, yes. But the allowed combinations
of constellation points can be described either as two orthogonal
signals, possibly with restrictions on the allowed points, or
as phase and amplitude. Done carefully that might get around
a patent.

-- glen

glen herrmannsfeldt
05-16-2008, 10:37 PM
Randy Yates wrote:
(someone wrote)

>>>>QAM uses two carrier waves that are 90-degrees out of phases with each
>>>>each and amplitude-modulates them. QAM only has two phases but can have
>>>>more than two amplitude levels. Is there any modulation scheme that does
>>>>the opposite -- i.e. the two carrier waves have only two amplitudes but
>>>>with more than two phases?
(snip)

> The answer is that, for simple amplitude modulation, the dimension of
> the vector space for this type of modulation is two - that is
> essentially what you've already stated. The reason that this is the case
> is that basis vectors in this space are sinusoids, and there can only be
> a maximum of two linearly independent vectors (at the same frequency) of
> this type.

Using that argument it should be possible to show that there
is no advantage to three-phase power. Note that the modulation
method and the resulting constellation are independent. One could
do 3QAM (three phase) using quadrature carriers or three different
phases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram

There are many ways to arrange N points in a two dimensional
space.

-- glen

Green Xenon [Radium]
05-17-2008, 12:07 AM
Eric Jacobsen wrote:


> QAM
> constellations have way more than two phases in the possible symbols.


Ok. What is the maximum amount of phases used in QAM?

If more phases are used, does this mean there are more bits-per-symbol?
Or is the amount of bits-per-symbol determined by the amounts of amplitudes?

glen herrmannsfeldt
05-17-2008, 01:44 AM
Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
(snip)

> Ok. What is the maximum amount of phases used in QAM?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram

> If more phases are used, does this mean there are more bits-per-symbol?
> Or is the amount of bits-per-symbol determined by the amounts of
> amplitudes?

It depends on the number of constellation points. As the
constellation doesn't need to have a power of two points,
the bits/symbol might not be an integer. That allows some
symbols for other uses, or, if it is about a half integer
then two symbols could hold some number of bits.

Twelve points hold 3.5 bits, so two symbols would be 7 bits,
with a few symbols left over.

Also, you count the phases differently as phase/magnitude
than as two quadrature signals, but the result is the same.

-- glen

Green Xenon [Radium]
05-17-2008, 11:55 PM
glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
> (snip)
>
>> Ok. What is the maximum amount of phases used in QAM?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
>
>> If more phases are used, does this mean there are more
>> bits-per-symbol? Or is the amount of bits-per-symbol determined by the
>> amounts of amplitudes?
>
> It depends on the number of constellation points. As the
> constellation doesn't need to have a power of two points,
> the bits/symbol might not be an integer. That allows some
> symbols for other uses, or, if it is about a half integer
> then two symbols could hold some number of bits.
>
> Twelve points hold 3.5 bits, so two symbols would be 7 bits,
> with a few symbols left over.
>
> Also, you count the phases differently as phase/magnitude
> than as two quadrature signals, but the result is the same.
>
> -- glen
>


Let's say I am using QAM and want a baud-rate of only
1-symbol-per-second but I want there to be 1-billion-bits-per-symbol.
How many phases do I need?

I am guessing I would need 2^1,000,000,000 different phases to achieve
this. Right?

A bit-resolution results in 2^ state of that bit-resolution. E.G. an
8-bit resolution results in 2^8 different states -- or 256 states.

Eric Jacobsen
05-18-2008, 12:57 AM
On Sat, 17 May 2008 15:55:02 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>> Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
>> (snip)
>>
>>> Ok. What is the maximum amount of phases used in QAM?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
>>
>>> If more phases are used, does this mean there are more
>>> bits-per-symbol? Or is the amount of bits-per-symbol determined by the
>>> amounts of amplitudes?
>>
>> It depends on the number of constellation points. As the
>> constellation doesn't need to have a power of two points,
>> the bits/symbol might not be an integer. That allows some
>> symbols for other uses, or, if it is about a half integer
>> then two symbols could hold some number of bits.
>>
>> Twelve points hold 3.5 bits, so two symbols would be 7 bits,
>> with a few symbols left over.
>>
>> Also, you count the phases differently as phase/magnitude
>> than as two quadrature signals, but the result is the same.
>>
>> -- glen
>>
>
>
>Let's say I am using QAM and want a baud-rate of only
>1-symbol-per-second but I want there to be 1-billion-bits-per-symbol.
>How many phases do I need?

You can do it with one if you have log2(1B) amplitudes. Two if you
have log2(1B)/2, four with log2(1B)/4, amplitudes, etc., etc. With
QAM you can encode information in both the phase and the amplitude.

>I am guessing I would need 2^1,000,000,000 different phases to achieve
>this. Right?
>
>A bit-resolution results in 2^ state of that bit-resolution. E.G. an
>8-bit resolution results in 2^8 different states -- or 256 states.
Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php

Eric Jacobsen
05-18-2008, 12:59 AM
On Sat, 17 May 2008 16:57:38 -0700, Eric Jacobsen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 May 2008 15:55:02 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>>> Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
>>> (snip)
>>>
>>>> Ok. What is the maximum amount of phases used in QAM?
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram
>>>
>>>> If more phases are used, does this mean there are more
>>>> bits-per-symbol? Or is the amount of bits-per-symbol determined by the
>>>> amounts of amplitudes?
>>>
>>> It depends on the number of constellation points. As the
>>> constellation doesn't need to have a power of two points,
>>> the bits/symbol might not be an integer. That allows some
>>> symbols for other uses, or, if it is about a half integer
>>> then two symbols could hold some number of bits.
>>>
>>> Twelve points hold 3.5 bits, so two symbols would be 7 bits,
>>> with a few symbols left over.
>>>
>>> Also, you count the phases differently as phase/magnitude
>>> than as two quadrature signals, but the result is the same.
>>>
>>> -- glen
>>>
>>
>>
>>Let's say I am using QAM and want a baud-rate of only
>>1-symbol-per-second but I want there to be 1-billion-bits-per-symbol.
>>How many phases do I need?
>
>You can do it with one if you have log2(1B) amplitudes. Two if you
>have log2(1B)/2, four with log2(1B)/4, amplitudes, etc., etc. With
>QAM you can encode information in both the phase and the amplitude.

Duh, I mean 2^1B amplitudes, (2^1B)/2, etc....reversed the
relationship there...

>
>>I am guessing I would need 2^1,000,000,000 different phases to achieve
>>this. Right?
>>
>>A bit-resolution results in 2^ state of that bit-resolution. E.G. an
>>8-bit resolution results in 2^8 different states -- or 256 states.
>Eric Jacobsen
>Minister of Algorithms
>Abineau Communications
>http://www.ericjacobsen.org
>
>Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php
Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php

Green Xenon [Radium]
05-18-2008, 06:16 AM
Eric Jacobsen wrote:


> You can do it with *one* if you have log2(1B) amplitudes.

'One' of what?

> *Two* if you
> have log2(1B)/2, *four* with log2(1B)/4, amplitudes, etc., etc.

"Two" and "four" of what?

> With
> QAM you can encode information in both the phase and the amplitude.


Really, 1-symbol-per-second with a billion-bits-per-symbol is possible
-- even if there is only changes in phase states but with the
peak-to-peak amplitude being constant?

Green Xenon [Radium]
05-18-2008, 06:17 AM
Eric Jacobsen wrote:


> Duh, I mean 2^1B amplitudes, (2^1B)/2, etc....reversed the
> relationship there...


In the '2^1B', does the 'B' stand for the bit-resolution?

Green Xenon [Radium]
05-18-2008, 06:23 AM
Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
> Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>
>
>> Duh, I mean 2^1B amplitudes, (2^1B)/2, etc....reversed the
>> relationship there...
>
>
> In the '2^1B', does the 'B' stand for the bit-resolution?

Sorry, I should've realized the that B stands for billion.

My bad.

Green Xenon [Radium]
05-18-2008, 06:24 AM
Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
> Eric Jacobsen wrote:
>
>
>> You can do it with *one* if you have log2(1B) amplitudes.
>
> 'One' of what?
>
>> *Two* if you
>> have log2(1B)/2, *four* with log2(1B)/4, amplitudes, etc., etc.
>
> "Two" and "four" of what?

Once again, I apologize for responding without reading properly. The
'one', 'two', and 'four' are the amounts of phases.

Sorry for the annoyance cause by the above response.

Green Xenon [Radium]
05-18-2008, 06:30 AM
Eric Jacobsen wrote:


> On Sat, 17 May 2008 15:55:02 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:


>> Let's say I am using QAM and want a baud-rate of only
>> 1-symbol-per-second but I want there to be 1-billion-bits-per-symbol.
>> How many phases do I need?


>
> You can do it with one if you have log2(1B) amplitudes. Two if you
> have log2(1B)/2, four with log2(1B)/4, amplitudes, etc., etc. With
> QAM you can encode information in both the phase and the amplitude.


If I have log2(1B) phases, I need only one amplitude. Right?