On 21 Nov, 04:42, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> Michael Plante <michael.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> (snip)
>
> > The words "climate change", as opposed to "global warming", have the
> > interesting interpretation of being untestable: *no one in their right mind
> > should expect the climate to stay the same, whether man exists or not. *I
> > should also point out that one of the key scientific debates (and most of
> > the typical banter you hear is not) is about positive versus negative
> > feedback, where the "input" to the model is primarily man-made CO2,
> > something that, in itself, is not enough to significantly affect climate.
>
> Why do you say that? *Have you considered how much CO2 we put
> into the atmosphere every day, where it goes, and how fast?

One warning sign that the CO2 argument might not hold, eh,
water, is that people start comparing effects of emissions
of methane etc from livestock with the effects of emitted
CO2 from various human activites. The numbers of large
mammals is significantly smaller these days than just a
mere century ago, ref Buffalo Bill and his ndriving the
Amercian bison to the verge of extinction. Similar decimations
of large mammals have occured more or less all over the world,
particularly in Africa.

If it is true that livestock accounts for several tens of
percent of green house gasses, these oce very large but
presently extinct sources that continuosly emitted large
amounts of methane, will have to be accounted for in the
historical gas emission data.

> If not, what basis do you have for your statement?

The CO2 argument has another two main flaws:

1) Everybody focus solely on CO2 and ignore everything else
that is spewed into the atmostphere, be it caused by
Homo Sapiens or other phenomena. There is plenty of
volcanic activity across the world, particularly around
the Pacific, where anecdotal (as opposed to historical)
data is scarce. People remember mt St Helens because they
saw it. Similar events in, say, Sakhalin and Kamtsjatka,
go unnoticed because no one are there to see.

2) The existence of a correlation between global temperature
and human CO2 emissions does not mean there is a cause-effect
relation between the two. Few if any climate models include
variability of the driving force, the sun, as contributing /
driving factor for the changes in climate. Until the causes
and effect relations between solar variability and terrestial
climate are fully understood, any statements regarding causes
and effects of climate changes are nothing more than speculation
and myth.

Rune